Charlottesville aftermath discussion thread...

[maomao]

I don't see how accounting for the fact that some people are more likely to feel and actually be threatened more than others because they're in the cross hairs of those on the right (not just the far right) undermines solidarity of the left. Surely it will bring more people into the fold if they don't fear they'll be thrown under the bus when the going gets tough, or that they're just expected to put up, shut up and fall into line because "at least we're better than the other guys."

But no-one here has behaved like that except you. The slightest deviation from your liberal orthodoxy is immediately denounced as racist or smeared as equivalent to the far-right.

 

[snadge]

I thought 'horseshoe theory' was the implication that whichever end of the political spectrum you look at, people are still lined up against the wall, far left or far right, they both have 'lists'.

 

[maomao]

I thought 'horseshoe theory' was the implication that whichever end of the political spectrum you look at, people are still lined up against the wall, far left or far right, they both have 'lists'.

Yeah, and you're on mine knob end.

 

[bimble]

A planned literal fucking book burning of degenerate literature that was supposed to happen today got cancelled because the nazis felt scared.
Scaring them works, its a really good idea.
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/08/alt...ature-after-organizer-says-he-fears-liberals/

 

[DotCommunist]

I thought 'horseshoe theory' was the implication that whichever end of the political spectrum you look at, people are still lined up against the wall, far left or far right, they both have 'lists'.

liberals don't have kill lists of course. Thats far to vulgar. They stick to quotas.

 

[andysays]

A planned literal fucking book burning of degenerate literature that was planned for today got cancelled because the nazis felt scared.
Scaring them works, its a really good idea.
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/08/alt...ature-after-organizer-says-he-fears-liberals/

Good news, but TBH, I'm not sure the organiser needs to fear violence from liberals.

If threads here are any indication, the worst they have to fear from liberals are sneering, hand wringing and posting of supposedly amusing memes.

 

[bimble]

Yeah, he was using the word in a different way to how its used here but please lets not go there, not again, not today .

edit: Actually looks like that's just the title they put on it, the man himself (the bookburner) cited 'the left' and 'violent socialists' as what scared him into cancelling.

 

[petee]

well done justin britt
Michael Bennett continues anthem protest as white team-mate shows support
this is a big first step. the culture around the NFL is a disgusting combination of militarist, patriotic, sexist reaction. this half-gesture hopefully will open the door for players and fans alike to speak. it will be harder now to use kaepernick as a lightning rod. i'm being serious here.

 

[Athos]

The idea of "human solidarity" is great, but...

But?!

 

[Pickman's model]

I thought 'horseshoe theory' was the implication that whichever end of the political spectrum you look at, people are still lined up against the wall, far left or far right, they both have 'lists'.

Horseshit theory more like

 

[redsquirrel]

I have a fundamental problem with sentiments like this: "It's a no-brainer: If you're a Jew and your boss says nice things about people who marched in the street chanting anti-Semitic and Nazi-era slogans, you have to resign in protest".

Why single out Jews? Surely, it applies if you're a decent human being? I don't buy the idea that Jews have a particular responsibility to oppose Nazis or anti-Semitism. All decent humans have an equal responsibility. All decent human beings should find it equally disgusting. These are things that are not and should not be distributed in different measure according to ethnicity.

That's not nit picking: that's the deep grammar of human solidarity. An injury to one is an injury to all.

I'm a bit late to the discussion, but this is bang on. And that someone, supposedly on the 'left', would attack this is both ludicrous and appalling.

 

[snadge]

Yeah, and you're on mine knob end.

Lol, what's up?

 

[bimble]

I'm a bit late to the discussion, but this is bang on. And that someone, supposedly on the 'left', would attack this is both ludicrous and appalling.

All decent human beings should find it equally disgusting and should oppose it equally, just as danny la rouge said but the problem is history tells us that they often didn't. Unless you want to say that everyone who did not risk their lives to stand against the nazis was not a decent human being, which is a tough call I think.
Where was that human solidarity for my grandparents for instance, they (dad's parents and a small group of other jews) ran off and hid in some woods when people in their town were being rounded up and transported to the camps. Their hiding place was was reported to the nazis by people who had been their neighbours, in their small town. So there's a problem, perpetuated by people like me who got told this stuff as a small kid, and who agree wholeheartedly that it should be is everyone's responsibility but still deep down don't trust that you would hide me in your attic etc.

 

[butchersapron]

Who failed here?

 

[CRI]

CRI said: ↑
The idea of "human solidarity" is great, but...

But?!

. . . unrealistic to expect if some humans marginalise other humans but still expect them to show solidarity.

 

[butchersapron]

Those who fought tooth and nail against fascism didn't stop the holocaust. Therefore all future people who fight tooth and nail against fascism are under suspicion.

 

[butchersapron]

CRI said: ↑
The idea of "human solidarity" is great, but...



. . . unrealistic to expect if some humans marginalise other humans but still expect them to show solidarity.

"some humans".

Listen to yourself.

 

[danny la rouge]

But?!

And it's a big but. I like big buts, I can't lie.

 

[bimble]

Those who fought toot and nail against fascism didn't stop the holocaust. Therefore all future people who fight tooth and nail against facsism are under suspicion.

Is that what you think my post suggested?
If so that's kind of mad.

 

[butchersapron]

Is that what you think my post suggested?
If so that's kind of mad.

It is mad. But no, it's CRI's suggestion.

 

[bimble]

ok i picked up wrong end of someone else's stick

 

[danny la rouge]

CRI said: ↑
The idea of "human solidarity" is great, but...



. . . unrealistic to expect if some humans marginalise other humans but still expect them to show solidarity.

Just stop it. The problem here is exactly that 'but', which has been explained. You're determined to divide people according to race. Determined. Even when the pitfalls therein are explained.

 

[Athos]

CRI said: ↑
The idea of "human solidarity" is great, but...



. . . unrealistic to expect if some humans marginalise other humans but still expect them to show solidarity.

Do you really not see how your antics undermine solidarity?

 

[Pickman's model]

ok i picked up wrong end of someone else's stick

The shitty end

 

[Pickman's model]

All decent human beings should find it equally disgusting and should oppose it equally, just as danny la rouge said but the problem is history tells us that they often didn't. Unless you want to say that everyone who did not risk their lives to stand against the nazis was not a decent human being, which is a tough call I think.
Where was that human solidarity for my grandparents for instance, they (dad's parents and a small group of other jews) ran off and hid in some woods when people in their town were being rounded up and transported to the camps. Their hiding place was was reported to the nazis by people who had been their neighbours, in their small town. So there's a problem, perpetuated by people like me who got told this stuff as a small kid, and who agree wholeheartedly that it should be is everyone's responsibility but still deep down don't trust that you would hide me in your attic etc.

No chance of hiding in my attick, chuck, I don't have one.

 

[redsquirrel]

All decent human beings should find it equally disgusting and should oppose it equally, just as danny la rouge said but the problem is history tells us that they often didn't. Unless you want to say that everyone who did not risk their lives to stand against the nazis was not a decent human being, which is a tough call I think.

It's one thing to recognise that people don't always show solidarity, it's another thing entirely to attack the idea solidarity, and it's basis as the foundation of political organising.

EDIT: if the 'left' stands for anything it has to stand for the idea that solidarity is where it all begins.

 

[maomao]

unrealistic to expect if some humans marginalise other humans but still expect them to show solidarity.

Who has done this? Again with the smears of racism. The only way of reading this is 'those who ask for solidarity are inevitably racists'. You literally can't make three posts without smearing some poor fucker as racist. I doubt you even know what the word means. What racism have you ever dealt with in your life?

 

[seventh bullet]

True, solidarity is hard. The right the advantage that many are driven by faith, religious or otherwise. Conformity and loyalty are valued. Questioning and inclusion are not. You're either with them or against them.

I think the far right will lick their chops regardless of what those further to the left are or are not doing. They see everyone who doesn't agree with them as the enemy, regardless of what they do.

I don't see how accounting for the fact that some people are more likely to feel and actually be threatened more than others because they're in the cross hairs of those on the right (not just the far right) undermines solidarity of the left. Surely it will bring more people into the fold if they don't fear they'll be thrown under the bus when the going gets tough, or that they're just expected to put up, shut up and fall into line because "at least we're better than the other guys."

Where is your solidarity with maomao? Is an apology just too hard? Or is he forever essentialised as the Enemy? The world out there isn't a brat's Tumblr. It can be much more dangerous, as evidenced by the murder of an anti-racist who by her very 'nature' must actually be a privileged racist, or according to Nazis a fat, ugly traitor to her race and social and biological function. My head hurt typing that. It's bonkers.

 

[butchersapron]

The best you can ever be is an anti-racist racist i'm afraid.

(i nicked that line off someone else,can't recall who or would credit)

 

[Miss Caphat]

so.......yeah. this happened today.

Arrests Made After 'Free Speech' Rally Ends

kind of hate to say "I told you so" and wondering if whatever group this is was completely unaware of their own PR.
pretty stupid. In what turned into a complete success, the "free speech" rally fell apart, while some 20,000+ peacefully protested, yet after the original rally had disbursed, some jackasses decided to go after the police? wtf?
I have heard the same from people I know who went and have no reason to lie.