Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

[TopCat]

I was watching the World in Action AFA programme from 1993 last night. I thought it important to show my gf what the times back then were about, particularly since I can foresee a need in the not too distant future for similar no platform tactics to be employed once again on a large scale.

It really grated at the end to see the credits where "AFA would like to thank Searchlight". Of all the possible thanks, to thank Searchlight? This being 8 years after Searchlight lied about and smeared Class War?

On a separate note, this then took me this morning to Searchlights web page. It said Charlie Sarjent has been released on licence. Has anything been heard of the horrible little fucker?

 

[Inigo Montoya]

On another thread: "If you ask Freedom they can confirm that when threatened with legal action by a certain NUJ activist to reveal the names of the authors of Beating The Fascists (I had interviewed them to promote the book) I chose to pay out of my own pocket rather than compromise the authors. I also offered support to Freedom and the authors when my situation was resolved." Brian Whelan

The NUJ activist in question was Hoffman who offered to waive the £400 if Whelan cooperated. Not dissimilar /threats/offers were made FP staff individually and collectively. Their refusal to play ball cost them £4000.
Oh, did I forget to mention that Hoffman is a Searchlight photographer?

On a related note, a 15 comment thread has developed over the last 24hrs on Paul Stott's blog after he (falsely) accused Whelan of being "closely associated" with Hope Not Hate.

http://paulstott.typepad.com/i_inte...o-was-behind-the-attack-on-freedom-press.html

 

[Joe Reilly]

It really grated at the end to see the credits where "AFA would like to thank Searchlight". Of all the possible thanks, to thank Searchlight? This being 8 years after Searchlight lied about and smeared Class War?

Really? I never noticed. I can assure you that had nothing to do with AFA. It was very much daggers drawn by late 1993 as BTF makes clear. Even Copsey admits the entire programme was designed to derail AFA. That Searchlight were behind it is beyond doubt. In any event what is in it that we would have to thank Searchlight for?

Funnily enough, some years later when we sold Panorama the Copeland footage, a key part of the agreement was that AFA be accredited. Panorama reneged. We took the BBC to court for infringement of intellectual copyright and won.

 

[bignose1]

On another thread: "If you ask Freedom they can confirm that when threatened with legal action by a certain NUJ activist to reveal the names of the authors of Beating The Fascists (I had interviewed them to promote the book) I chose to pay out of my own pocket rather than compromise the authors. I also offered support to Freedom and the authors when my situation was resolved." Brian Whelan

The NUJ activist in question was Hoffman who offered to waive the £400 if Whelan cooperated. Not dissimilar /threats/offers were made FP staff individually and collectively. Their refusal to play ball cost them £4000.

Oh, did I forget to mention that Hoffman is a Searchlight photographer?

So whats the Searchlight stuff to do with me? And your previous post about not seeing Dave since 95..I think youll find thats never been said. WTF are you on. You talk in riddles and no matter what you say and all the bluster, you remain a bully, compulsive liar and hypocrite who when faced with what you considered 'treachery' by an individual decided along with like minded people to deconstruct actual events then reinvent a whole new scenario which would place you in a position to manipulate others. It seems on here that is what you are doing with your inane repetitive posting. Go away. Your time is gone.

 

[TopCat]

So whats the Searchlight stuff to do with me? And your previous post about not seeing Dave since 95..I think youll find thats never been said. WTF are you on. You talk in riddles and no matter what you say and all the bluster, you remain a bully, compulsive liar and hypocrite who when faced with what you considered 'treachery' by an individual decided along with like minded people to deconstruct actual events then reinvent a whole new scenario which would place you in a position to manipulate others. It seems on here that is what you are doing with your inane repetitive posting. Go away. Your time is gone.

I think that Joe's posts have been crystal clear. He asserts he had no contact with Dave Hann in any form since 1995. Do you refute this? If he did not have any contact with Dave Hann as he asserts, how was this campaign against Dave and his family as you assert waged?

 

[Joe Reilly]

So whats the Searchlight stuff to do with me?

Well,on the face of it nothing, apart from your previous denial of a link:

"Please do me a favour......there is no link between Searchlight/Hoffman and LP's quest to stop smears and lies."

and this latest post to distance yourself from it?

 

[malatesta32]

I was watching the World in Action AFA programme from 1993 last night. I thought it important to show my gf what the times back then were about,

Mal: how romantic! however the BTF promo is most impressive and dare i say exciting?

particularly since I can foresee a need in the not too distant future for similar no platform tactics to be employed once again on a large scale.

Mal: no platform needs extensive discussion given the nature of t'internet etc especially facebook where many people come across 'virtual fascism.'

It really grated at the end to see the credits where "AFA would like to thank Searchlight". Of all the possible thanks, to thank Searchlight? This being 8 years after Searchlight lied about and smeared Class War?

Mal: did they not also smear RA?

On a separate note, this then took me this morning to Searchlights web page. It said Charlie Sarjent has been released on licence. Has anything been heard of the horrible little fucker?

Mal: a couple of idle threats on VNN - 'i'm gonna do him if i see him' by the ageing slags of C18. i shd think he wil have at the very least a 'panic button' supplied by his branch 'friends.' been monitoring it for a whilke but very little anywhere. which could bode ill.

 

[malatesta32]

this in stormfront about sergeant:
http://www.stormfront dot org/forum/t860216-7/

 

[TopCat]

Sorry maletesta it's took me a while to work out what you were posting given the quoted format.

It took me back watching the World In Action programme. When I look back over the last 30 plus years and think just how many attempts their have been to derail/divert and destabilise militant anti fascism from within, from without, from everywhere, it's a credit to the single minded focus of a core group that these attempts never stopped some of the most singularly effective action against the far right we have seen in our lifetimes. Respect to them.

 

[malatesta32]

totally right TC. in the research for the antifash book i have to say that RA and AFA have come out of it all very well. apart from the stupid 'squadism' nonsense from SWP, it can be safely said that in regards to anti-fash activity RA took it to em and WON! and the fash knew it and still talk about it. AFA by extension was also highly successful in achieving exactly what it set out to do. the far right, apart from attacking ANL leafleters in brick lane NEVER scored a decisive victory over RA/AFA and as for C18, to quote bob hoskins, 'i shit em!' RA/AFA successes are extremely impressive and are a bona fide part of UK antifascist history up there with 43 Group etc. which is why this thread is a bit depressing as most people here who did the business, the key players, have enormous respect from antifascists past and present and, to quote the delectable doris day they shd 'put it in a box, tie it with a ribbon and throw it in the deep blue say!'

 

[framed]

So whats the Searchlight stuff to do with me? And your previous post about not seeing Dave since 95..I think youll find thats never been said. WTF are you on. You talk in riddles and no matter what you say and all the bluster, you remain a bully, compulsive liar and hypocrite who when faced with what you considered 'treachery' by an individual decided along with like minded people to deconstruct actual events then reinvent a whole new scenario which would place you in a position to manipulate others. It seems on here that is what you are doing with your inane repetitive posting. Go away. Your time is gone.

If ever there was a complete misreading of a thread, this is it.

You have continually inferred a campaign of harassment against Louise Purbrick by the authors of Beating the Fascists, when in fact the reverse is the case. It is Louise Purbrick, by means of legal threats, who attempted to threaten, intimidate and bully the publishers and authors of BtF into silence over the true nature of the events which led to Hann's expulsion from Red Action and AFA.

You directly accused Reilly and his 'gang' of hounding and threatening Dave Hann and his family. That's not true and you know it.

I attended meetings with senior RA members after the publication of No Retreat and I never saw anyone so much as lose their temper over it. People were shocked that he had the balls to try to rewrite his own personal history within AFA and to invent political disagreements that led to his departure from AFA rather than admit the truth that it was the mugging case that made his position within both organisations (and the Red Attitude fanzine) completely untenable.

The conclusion drawn by Red Action members in relation to NR was that the falsehoods it contained would have to be answered politically and the record put straight. And that is what happened. In a couple of pages of Beating the Fascists we exercised our right of reply to the lies contained in Dave's account of his political activities and reasons for his expulsion.

There was no hate campaign, no threats, no hounding, no intimidation, no bullying and no beatings. All inferences and accusations of such are false; complete and utter lies.

People who were not close to the events or individuals concerned may not see the point in continuing this thread, but as long as BigNose1 continues to pour false allegations on top of false allegations, it will never end.

 

[TopCat]

People who were not close to the events or individuals concerned may not see the point in continuing this thread, but as long as BigNose1 continues to pour false allegations on top of false allegations, it will never end.

This is the appropriate place for discussion for all issues pertaining to the history of AFA given it's a thread about exactly that (AFA).

Just because "Bignose " is attempting to use the thread to put forward a (revisionist) account of what happened in his eyes matters not a jot. if he keeps on doing so then his points need to be continually rebutted or if true admitted.

That he is also trying to use the thread to rehabilitate himself in some way is interesting.

Given his associations with Searchlight and their attempts through several conduits to intimidate the authors and publishers of BTF is also very telling.

People can read the thread for themselves and make up their own mind as to who is telling the truth about what. The refusal by Bignose to answer pretty much any tricky question regarding his behaviour and or involvement in attempting to undermine BTF is also very telling. I await his latest insults with interest.

Big nose, how many of the comments on Indymedia about BTF were you responsible for?

 

[gawkrodger]

Is the WIA docco online anywhere?

 

[framed]

Is the WIA docco online anywhere?

Is this what you're looking for?

Violence with Violence

(World in Action, 1993)

 

[framed]

I was watching the World in Action AFA programme from 1993 last night. I thought it important to show my gf what the times back then were about, particularly since I can foresee a need in the not too distant future for similar no platform tactics to be employed once again on a large scale.

It really grated at the end to see the credits where "AFA would like to thank Searchlight". Of all the possible thanks, to thank Searchlight? This being 8 years after Searchlight lied about and smeared Class War?

On a separate note, this then took me this morning to Searchlights web page. It said Charlie Sarjent has been released on licence. Has anything been heard of the horrible little fucker?

Not sure that AFA would be in a position to thank anyone for their help in making a World In Action documentary. We definitely wouldn't have thanked even the programme makers for that one.

Are you mixing it up with the 1992 BBC Open Space programme - FIGHTING TALK - that was made under AFA editorship with the BBC's Community Programmes Unit?

 

[framed]

violence is so horrible

But sometimes necessary.

Do you have an alternative method of confronting violent fascists?

 

[framed]

being nice to them? They have moms & pets too

I don't think this thread is for you Camilla.

 

[framed]

why? The people here seem nice

Watch the videos... bye bye!

 

[Casually Red]

violence is so horrible

sos trolling and taking the piss

 

[frogwoman]

 

[frogwoman]

this must be a pisstake. why would a 10 year old be on this thread?

 

[frogwoman]

jesus, you're mean

You are not a real person.

 

[frogwoman]

Mind you i say that, i was looking at this site when i was 13

 

[framed]

...

 

[Red Storm]

Is the WIA docco online anywhere?

To credit the source: it's thanks to bignose that the doc is online.

 

[TopCat]

Are you mixing it up with the 1992 BBC Open Space programme - FIGHTING TALK - that was made under AFA editorship with the BBC's Community Programmes Unit?

I did mix them up, apologies for the confusion.

 

[LiamO]

What did you mix up? Now you're adding to the confusion

 

[bignose1]

This is the appropriate place for discussion for all issues pertaining to the history of AFA given it's a thread about exactly that (AFA).

Just because "Bignose " is attempting to use the thread to put forward a (revisionist) account of what happened in his eyes matters not a jot. if he keeps on doing so then his points need to be continually rebutted or if true admitted.

That he is also trying to use the thread to rehabilitate himself in some way is interesting.

Given his associations with Searchlight and their attempts through several conduits to intimidate the authors and publishers of BTF is also very telling.

People can read the thread for themselves and make up their own mind as to who is telling the truth about what. The refusal by Bignose to answer pretty much any tricky question regarding his behaviour and or involvement in attempting to undermine BTF is also very telling. I await his latest insults with interest.

Big nose, how many of the comments on Indymedia about BTF were you responsible for?

You continue to peddle the nonsense about me and my association with Searchlight inferring that I had and still have a relationship. Ive already said I left Searchlight in 94 following 'disagreements' This is probably not long after AFA/RA did likewise. So why do you continually rattle this out ...if only to mischief make. Let me take you back to the RA forum. You really should go back there and read the stuff. Which you moderated. Threats were rife...numerous personal insults.....and Dave was threatened with being stabbed. It very nasty shite for which you were responsible.

I was informed that because of all this, discussions were held and subsequently the forum was closed down. How many unpleasant posts did you write? Before you ask me about Indymedia.

Why do I need to rehabiliate myself....and for who's sake.....Yours ?

I think you just havnt got the nouse to understand exactly what a campaign of harrassment actual entails rather than deliberately repeating a mantra that you hope will eventually wear me down. That wont ever happen but please show some insight It isnt about turning up at someones house ballied up. You were a bit more pernicious. But on saying that their was nothing subtle when I was attacked in a pub by some of Denis Cliffords cohorts a couple of years ago at his request. Following this was told I wasnt welcome in a certain pub which if it wasnt a threat what was it. This is a man who has hidden behind gangsters all his life. People responsible for way way more unsavoury activities than DH's alleged crimes. Any comments on that?. Clifford famously saying around the same time, ' should see the crew weve got now.' Comments please as to why a 50 yr old man needs to say that. Is it because him/you operate in a type of atmosphere which is unable/unwilling to differentiate from the the AFA no nonsense stuff with the fash with anyone who dares fuck with you. Having the audacity to write a book......leave an organisation.....or run a fanzine was not permitted and for this non compliance a hate/smear campaign ensued in all its guises and often with violence lurking. Infact one of the reasons Dave left Manchester.

You should revisit the RA forum, indeed so should anyone on here who hasnt made their mind up regard what motivates the persistent revisiont RA lies.....(its still archived on the web.) That campaign was practice for what came later.

 

[TopCat]

What did you mix up? Now you're adding to the confusion

Sorry, I mixed up the World In Action programme with the Fighting Talk one with Mensi pictured above. It was the latter that had a credit "AFA would like to thank Searchlight" not the former.

 

[TopCat]

You continue to peddle the nonsense about me and my association with Searchlight inferring that I had and still have a relationship. Ive already said I left Searchlight in 94 following 'disagreements' This is probably not long after AFA/RA did likewise. So why do you continually rattle this out ...if only to mischief make. Let me take you back to the RA forum. You really should go back there and read the stuff. Which you moderated. Threats were rife...numerous personal insults.....and Dave was threatened with being stabbed. It very nasty shite for which you were responsible.

I was informed that because of all this, discussions were held and subsequently the forum was closed down. How many unpleasant posts did you write? Before you ask me about Indymedia.

Why do I need to rehabiliate myself....and for who's sake.....Yours ?

I think you just havnt got the nouse to understand exactly what a campaign of harrassment actual entails rather than deliberately repeating a mantra that you hope will eventually wear me down. That wont ever happen but please show some insight It isnt about turning up at someones house ballied up. You were a bit more pernicious. But on saying that their was nothing subtle when I was attacked in a pub by some of Denis Cliffords cohorts a couple of years ago at his request. Following this was told I wasnt welcome in a certain pub which if it wasnt a threat what was it. This is a man who has hidden behind gangsters all his life. People responsible for way way more unsavoury activities than DH's alleged crimes. Any comments on that?. Clifford famously saying around the same time, ' should see the crew weve got now.' Comments please as to why a 50 yr old man needs to say that. Is it because him/you operate in a type of atmosphere which is unable/unwilling to differentiate from the the AFA no nonsense stuff with the fash with anyone who dares fuck with you. Having the audacity to write a book......leave an organisation.....or run a fanzine was not permitted and for this non compliance a hate/smear campaign ensued in all its guises and often with violence lurking. Infact one of the reasons Dave left Manchester.

You should revisit the RA forum, indeed so should anyone on here who hasnt made their mind up regard what motivates the persistent revisiont RA lies.....(its still archived on the web.) That campaign was practice for what came later.

You could do with re reading this thread. I am not nor ever have been a member of Red Action. I have never "moderated" the Red Action forums. I can't recollect ever posting on them. I am not responsible for any "nasty shite" as you allege.

I was a member of Class War in the 80's at the time of the Searchlight inspired allegations against Class War. These allegations sapped the strength of Class War at a time when it was advancing strongly. I still have a huge amount of anger about these allegations even after all these years. I wrote about this in the early pages of this thread. People from RA were straightforward on this thread in discussing their point of view over this with regard to why they still dealt with Searchlight up until 1994 and on what basis.

You however (according to your own words on this thread) were a Searchlight man. You assert you no longer have any association with Searchlight. I tend to view this with a pinch of salt, mainly because Searchlight operatives are not known for telling the truth.

Add to that your continual refusal to answer pretty much any questions put to you on this thread, instead you just insult all and sundry whilst attacking the integrity of people in RA for whom I have a huge amount of respect for, knowing what they did during these times to which we refer.

Although I am an anarchist, given the choice I would hang on with RA when (on several occasions) actions against the fascists were carried out because although I might get insulted all day long, they were effective and would never leave me on my arse getting a kicking.

So back to the questions I asked. How many of the comments on Indymedia on the BTF thread were you responsible for?