What's the dirt on Justin Trudeau?

[Lord Camomile]

This really is Trudeau’s “pigfucker moment”, isn’t it?

In that it won't actually make much of a difference?

To be honest, I think for many this will be a more surprising revelation. Trudeau has, up to this point, done a pretty decent job of presenting a palatable, meme-friendly version of himself, at least to your average citizen who didn't look too far beyond the headlines and shareables.

No-one was surprised that Cameron fucked a pig's head.

 

[Yossarian]

The Ting Tong joke was at the expense of the sad bloke who thought he could 'buy' a wife who would be subservient to his wishes and forever grateful for his largesse and in return do his household chores and give him sex - that she treated him like shit instead was the joke. That's what was funny. Laughing at the twat who thought his economic and white male privilege entitled him to be treated in a certain way by someone he sought to exploit.

That's what was funny.

The character was a grasping, deceitful mail-order bride from Thailand called Ting Tong Macadangdang who turned out to have a penis, I don't think people criticising the show for racism are overlooking a lot of subtle humour here.

 

[danny la rouge]

I'm not intending to defend Trudeau: I just think the acceptability or otherwise of blackface is more complex than just saying 'well they knew in the 1970s!'. Progress doesn't just happen in a linear fashion and to some extent these fights need to be refought again and again - that there was just off the top of my head 4 very popular comedy shows which used blackface (with varying degrees of knowingness) around the turn of the millennium after a few decades of it being verboten surely demonstrates this.

The example of Royston Vasey really is on the very edge of the issue though. It never was portraying anything as socially acceptable. Everything about it was unsettling, from the married brother and sister serial killers to Herr Lipp’s obsession with Justin Smart. The idea was to shock. It was shocking at the time, not just with hindsight.

What was JT’s intention when he thought “I know, I’ll turn up at a parents’ evening dressed in brown face as a pantomime Asian when I know there are Asian parents attending”? On what now turns out to have been many occasions. In 2001.

I really don’t think there was the miasma of confusion you’re portraying.

 

[kebabking]

The character was a grasping, deceitful mail-order bride from Thailand called Ting Tong Macadangdang who turned out to have a penis, I don't think people criticising the show for racism are overlooking a lot of subtle humour here.

That's what made it funny.

If the mail order bride had been beautiful, submissive, did all the housework and acquiesced in his sexual demands then it wouldn't have been funny, it would have been horrible to watch because it's slavery forced on someone because of their economic disadvantage. The humour was in him getting the exact opposite of what he had 'ordered' in being treated like shit instead his expected position of lording it over Ting Tong.

That's what's funny.

 

[Gaia]

That's a better way of saying what I was kind of hinting at; things have moved in a smudgy, irregular manner over time. Not everyone, not in sudden obvious steps, not a "clean line between one and t'other", but as a general aggregate.

Eg. many were a bit uncomfortable with some bits of League Of Gentlemen but we weren't quite at the point of majority acceptance of that pov.

Really…? I don't recall anything. And Papa Lazarou wasn't supposed to be black, black, IYSWIM, but LoG was all about pushing the envelope as far as possible. I do have to say that I do find it a bit irritating when we have white people deciding on what's offensive to non-whites, which seems to be happening more and more these days - when was the last time you saw a black/non-white SJW…? Never, because they don't exist. Fucking sick of white people deciding what is/isn't offensive to black people. I honestly do not recall any black person who was offended by LoG or LB (the latter I didn't watch much because I didn't find it all that funny). Speaking of LB, I also don't recall disabled people finding Andy offensive. But this isn't a discussion for this thread.

 

[xenon]

The example of Royston Vasey really is on the very edge of the issue though. It never was portraying anything as socially acceptable. Everything about it was unsettling, from the married brother and sister serial killers to Herr Lipp’s obsession with Justin Smart. The idea was to shock. It was shocking at the time, not just with hindsight.

What was JT’s intention when he thought “I know, I’ll turn up at a parents’ evening dressed in brown face as a pantomime Asian when I know there are Asian parents attending”? On what now turns out to have been many occasions. In 2001.

I really don’t think there was the miasma of confusion you’re portraying.

LoG's character wasn't a black man anyway. It was playing with symbolism that may very well have been based on racism but it was a million miles away from black and white minstrel shite. LB was just crap and crass.

And yeah. 18 years ago is nothing. That lazy, things were different 20 years ago. A bloke on the radio just said 5, 10 years ago, it was different, you could smoke in pubs...

The only people who thought it was fine to black up then were either ignorantly naïve, racist or thought they could get away with a racist joke / trope due to the context they were in.

 

[Proper Tidy]

The character was a grasping, deceitful mail-order bride from Thailand called Ting Tong Macadangdang who turned out to have a penis, I don't think people criticising the show for racism are overlooking a lot of subtle humour here.

Yeah the butt of the joke was both of them

 

[8ball]

Really…? I don't recall anything. And Papa Lazarou wasn't supposed to be black, black, IYSWIM, but LoG was all about pushing the envelope as far as possible.

I never watched it that much, but I took Papa Lazarou to be a representation of a white man in black face, not one of the actors blacking up to play a black person.

 

[joustmaster]

Of course blackface was considered racist in 2001. It's not some lost bygone era where you'd need to research social attitudes to figure this out; most of us here were adults in 2001 and can remember it perfectly well.

The tide of understanding moves for people as the world progresses.

I saw things and understood things in the 80s that I didn't think were racist. And stuff I said and did in the 90s would upset me know.
But just because I understand that, and you understand that, doesn't mean all people do.

Blackface in my community in the late 90s was applauded. My blacked up face was in the school news letter as an example of a great night and celebration.

There's still a lot of people from that community that would dress up as Mr T and see no issue. And more so, none would call them out on it. They don't think it is racist.

My point being, because you and I knew that it wasn't on in 2001, didn't mean others did.

Who knows about this Canadian dude... I don't. And I'm not going to hold it against him twenty years later without seeing him displaying any racist tendency now.

 

[Proper Tidy]

I do think league of gentlemen should be treated differently to little britain. Wasn't really my bag but still different.

 

[8ball]

Yeah the butt of the joke was both of them

Yeah, Jim Davidson probably still does that thing where he justifies silly voices and stuff by aiming the butt of the joke in a different direction.

 

[8ball]

I do think league of gentlemen should be treated differently to little britain. Wasn't really my bag but still different.

I think that's fair.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Who knows about this Canadian dude... I don't.

His dad was the Canadian PM

 

[joustmaster]

His dad was the Canadian PM

Does that make it clearer or not?
Rich white families living in their little bubble? I don't know. Maybe they should know better.
My home community is so far behind because they're and isolated bunch of white famers.

 

[8ball]

...when was the last time you saw a black/non-white SJW…? Never, because they don't exist.

... and what the fuck is this shit?

 

[danny la rouge]

Before we disappear off into the hinterlands of “is it racist to portray racism”, let’s just remember that’s not what Trudeau was doing. He was being racist and he knew he was.

It really is that simple.

 

[a_chap]

You totally nailed the look though, shaved your head and everything

Given that the office party was "fancy dress" I'd gone to a fancy-dress shop and chose the Mr T kit because it was the most preposterous thing I could think of wearing. It came with a bald/mohawk wig, face paint and some plastic fake gold rings and chains. They were such rubbish that I went to a hardware store and bought yards and yards of brass chain to make it look better.

The first part of the party was in the office and then we had to walk through town to a restaurant for lunch.

As it was Christmas mums kept bringing little kids over to me thinking, I suspect, that I was some sort of Christmas attraction and I felt obliged to act like Mr T so as not to let them down. It was at this point I discovered my plan had a fatal flaw; I'd never actually watched an episode of The A Team - I had no idea what Mr T said or did. I recall punching the air a lot and saying "Yo!" very loudly.

It was truly excruciating

 

[Cpatain Rbubish]

I never watched it that much, but I took Papa Lazarou to be a representation of a white man in black face, not one of the actors blacking up to play a black person.

Here’s a curve ball to the LoG Papa L discourse. Papa L’s face was exactly the same underneath his makeup!

Yup, he had a black face, white eyes and mouth, exactly the same (just a bit rougher round the edges) as his makeup was on top!?!

 

[killer b]

Mind you, even now it's possible to use blackface appropriately for comic effect.

 

[8ball]

He was being racist and he knew he was.

It's good that we have psychics on the boards. Otherwise we'd have to speculate about the latter.

 

[danny la rouge]

It's good that we have psychics on the boards. Otherwise we'd have to speculate about the latter.

A politically aware teacher in 2001? Of course he knew. If he’d come on these boards and posted up a picture saying “is this OK?” he’d have been told to go and fuck himself. He knew.

Does it mean he can’t have changed? Of course he can have changed. But the excuse that he didn’t know is bollocks.

 

[8ball]

A politically aware teacher in 2001? Of course he knew. If he’d come on these boards and posted up a picture saying “is this OK?” he’d have been told to go and fuck himself. He knew.

Does it mean he can’t have changed? Of course he can have changed. But the excuse that he didn’t know is bollocks.

Change can take different forms. I've met plenty of people involved in politics who aren't politically aware.

 

[danny la rouge]

Change can take different forms. I've met plenty of people involved in politics who aren't politically aware.

I didn’t say he had changed. Just that he might have. But the idea that he didn’t know what he was doing isn’t remotely plausible.

 

[andysays]

Given that the office party was "fancy dress" I'd gone to a fancy-dress shop and chose the Mr T kit because it was the most preposterous thing I could think of wearing. It came with a bald/mohawk wig, face paint and some plastic fake gold rings and chains. They were such rubbish that I went to a hardware store and bought yards and yards of brass chain to make it look better.

The first part of the party was in the office and then we had to walk through town to a restaurant for lunch.

As it was Christmas mums kept bringing little kids over to me thinking, I suspect, that I was some sort of Christmas attraction and I felt obliged to act like Mr T so as not to let them down. It was at this point I discovered my plan had a fatal flaw; I'd never actually watched an episode of The A Team - I had no idea what Mr T said or did. I recall punching the air a lot and saying "Yo!" very loudly.

It was truly excruciating

Pity the fool who tries to impersonate Mr T

 

[Kaka Tim]

fucks sake - even my dad - a tory voting, telegraph reader - used to complain about the B&W minstrel show being offensive.

WRT - league of gentleman. Papa Lazaroo was shocking precisely because the B&W minstrels were commonly understood to be a shameful embarrassment that had been erazed from memory- the humour and shock was in the character being a grotesque from the past come back to haunt us - he was meant to make you squirm (like much else in the show) .
The humour of Papa Lazaroo was not "white person pretending to be black - lol" . With Trudeau, however, that was exactly what the "joke" was.

 

[maomao]

Lets do some joined up thinking here. If Justin Trudeau, liberal prime minister, son of Pierre Trudeau and the world leader most viewed as a pinko leftie by the right wing press did blackface in 2001 then surely it wasn't considered racist at the time.

It makes no sense that he'd go around being a racist arsehole with regard to his personal politics and family history

There's some terrible posts on this thread but this one has to be the worst.

 

[maomao]

The Ting Tong joke was at the expense of the sad bloke who thought he could 'buy' a wife who would be subservient to his wishes and forever grateful for his largesse and in return do his household chores and give him sex - that she treated him like shit instead was the joke. That's what was funny. Laughing at the twat who thought his economic and white male privilege entitled him to be treated in a certain way by someone he sought to exploit.

That's what was funny.

Could you pop round and explain that to my kids when they get called tingtongs at school pls. I don't they've quite got the joke yet.

 

[8ball]

In that it won't actually make much of a difference?

To be honest, I think for many this will be a more surprising revelation. Trudeau has, up to this point, done a pretty decent job of presenting a palatable, meme-friendly version of himself, at least to your average citizen who didn't look too far beyond the headlines and shareables.

No-one was surprised that Cameron fucked a pig's head.

Missed this. Can't argue there.
Weird thing for me isn't that the 'initial' picture exists, but that on a bell curve of the number of times having worn blackface, he's probably further along than most raving racist loons.

 

[Dogsauce]

So where are we on vic’n’bob doing prince, or Morris doing Fur-Q?

 

[SpineyNorman]

... and what the fuck is this shit?

The minute anyone says SJW my cunt detector goes mental.