D'wards
IT'S YOUR DECISION DANIEL
Conceded
. But I'll refer to Homer Simpson at this point
What's the dirt on Justin Trudeau?
- Thread starter caleb
- Start date
. But I'll refer to Homer Simpson at this point
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
It wasn't "Little Britain" and "League of Gentlemen" were trying to ensconce themselves in the ironic edgy comedy niche. The Black and White Minstrels were dumped four decades ago because of their crude racism
Proper Tidy
Arsed
defo a hobby/fetish
Yossarian
Get thee behind me, Santa
Looks like it wasn't considered offensive by rich white people in the bubble he was apparently still living in at the time, I think people might have had a thing or two to say if he'd walked around in downtown Vancouver or Toronto dressed like that.
Yossarian
Get thee behind me, Santa
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Not considered racist by whom at the time? Not considered racist by him, perhaps. Doesn't mean he was right.
Little Britain wasn't edgy, it was a hugely popular mass-market sketch show. Their blacking up was transgressive for sure, but one of the problems with transgression is that you don't get to choose how your audience takes it - and you risk re-popularising stuff that has been out of favour for years.
There was a lot of it about around then though, all done with a bit of a wink to camera - Ali G & Bo Selecta both spring to mind too. I mentioned elsewhere recently that it wasn't uncommon for white men to think nothing of calling other n***er, thanks to Quentin Tarantino - it was a strange time. It's not surprising if some people fucked right up around then.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
I didn't say it was edgy. It just wanted to be seen as such as did "The League of Gentlemen"; racist, but with a pathetic excuse.
TheHoodedClaw
acknowledging ur soup leg
I suppose it is time that I made a confession.
In 1983, the company I worked for had a Christmas party with a fancy dress theme and I went as Mr T (from the TV show "The A Team" for you youngsters)
I thought it was a bit of fun. I even won a prize for best costume.
But I never realised what that single act revealed. Apparently, and quite a surprise to me, I am therefore a massive racist...
You totally nailed the look though, shaved your head and everything
For any interested, I believe that Papa L was based on the Morris tradition of black face rather than the Minstrel one. Interesting bit on WikiP about the disputed history of its origins including a snippet bit about it being to anonimize (is that a word?) the protagonists (insert racist joke about all looking the same here).
Worth a read Border Morris - Wikipedia
OK I just assumed Morris rather than Minstrel, probably because I’ve seen aforementioned black faced Morris peeps and not really been bothered by it myself. Perhaps I should be but if I must suffer pub entertainment of this nature I’m with the naughty, edgier punks of Morris with black face if they so wish rather than the happy clapping floral folk.
FWIW The black face Morris chap I spoke to when I first saw them definitely said something about it being a disguise so as not to be recognised by local folk and (I think) something about landowners (the Morris sounded a bit subversive). Hey, but who knows where he got that from
Anyhoo, off topic and danger of derail. I’ll go find the older threads and get learnt.
Times and attitudes have certainly changed in my lifetime, those old enough I dare say could name a few TV shows from back in the day that no broadcaster would ever dream of airing now that were mainstream prime time shows then. I could be wrong but I don’t think many peeps watching it then were aware of how fucking outrageously racist and sexist so much if it was.
We’ve got nothing to shout about but I do think we’re headed in the right direction at least.
We’ve got nothing to shout about but I do think we’re headed in the right direction at least.
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Yeah they would say that.
FabricLiveBaby!
Live Baby Fabric!
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
Amazing couple of pages. It was absolutely considered racist in 2001 to do blackface. I went to school in the 70s and I knew then it was racist. I remember the criticism of the Black and White Minstrel Show at the time. My Da, now on his 80s, was aware of that at the time. We discussed it. He was against minstrelsy’s bizarre stereotyping. In the 1970s. This wasn’t some rarified academic debate designed to trip up the unwary masses. It was covered in the Daily Record (a Scottish tabloid we had in our house in those days). So the idea that an adult working as a teacher in this century didn’t know, let’s put it it charitably, that there were even “boundaries that might be being crossed” is fucking bonkers. He knew. This wasn’t some naive kid.
Might he have changed? Sure. It was 20 years ago. But he fucking knew.
Might he have changed? Sure. It was 20 years ago. But he fucking knew.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Obviously attitudes to race/racism have changed - for instance I love porridge but there is racism in that. But it was racist at the time, it wasn't that people didn't know it was racist, it's that racism was socially accepted (still is really but changed). And Trudeau is 46 not 90, 2001 wasn't that long ago. Also everybody knew little britain was dodgy because everybody said it at the time, that awful ting tong stuff ffs
Absolutely this ^. I was quite young when it ended (late 70s?) and my parents refused to watch it. I probably only remember anything about it because of them turning the channel over when it started.
Eta Sorry this was at danny la rouge's post.
Eta Sorry this was at danny la rouge's post.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Very definitely not 'everybody'.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
What was the joke then?
Spandex
A crazy bulbous punchbag of sound
Of course blackface was considered racist in 2001. It's not some lost bygone era where you'd need to research social attitudes to figure this out; most of us here were adults in 2001 and can remember it perfectly well.
If someone had started a thread on here in 2001 asking "is blackface racist?" there'd have been no debate, just a resounding 'yes, of course it is, why are you asking such a stupid question?'.
Any comedy using blackface at the time knew perfectly well it was racist. The point of Papa Lazero in Legue of Gentlemen was that Royston Vazey was so backwards that a black and white minstrel was still acceptable.
The point of Little Britain was that it was made by cunts parading right wing stereotypes for cheap laughs. I fucking hated that programme at the time and I know I'm not alone: oh ha ha, look at the lazy disabled man pretending to be worse than he is to take advantage of his kindly carer; oh ha ha, look at the loud mouthed working class girl; oh ha ha look at the funny gay man. It's no surprise they were racist fucks too.
The point of Bo Selector was... actually, what was the point of Bo Selector? Unfunny shite, that's what.
Trudeau has been shown to be a massive prick. Fuck him.
If someone had started a thread on here in 2001 asking "is blackface racist?" there'd have been no debate, just a resounding 'yes, of course it is, why are you asking such a stupid question?'.
Any comedy using blackface at the time knew perfectly well it was racist. The point of Papa Lazero in Legue of Gentlemen was that Royston Vazey was so backwards that a black and white minstrel was still acceptable.
The point of Little Britain was that it was made by cunts parading right wing stereotypes for cheap laughs. I fucking hated that programme at the time and I know I'm not alone: oh ha ha, look at the lazy disabled man pretending to be worse than he is to take advantage of his kindly carer; oh ha ha, look at the loud mouthed working class girl; oh ha ha look at the funny gay man. It's no surprise they were racist fucks too.
The point of Bo Selector was... actually, what was the point of Bo Selector? Unfunny shite, that's what.
Trudeau has been shown to be a massive prick. Fuck him.
danny la rouge
I have a cheese grater in the dishwasher.
I’ve never seen Little Britain so can’t comment. Never watched Bo Selecta either. Just looking at that guy gives me the creeps. Like deeply unsettling creeps.
I did like League of Gentlemen. But Papa L was intended to shock. Nobody watching it was thinking “oh, what wholesome family entertainment that charming minstrel provides”.
I did like League of Gentlemen. But Papa L was intended to shock. Nobody watching it was thinking “oh, what wholesome family entertainment that charming minstrel provides”.
I'm not intending to defend Trudeau: I just think the acceptability or otherwise of blackface is more complex than just saying 'well they knew in the 1970s!'. Progress doesn't just happen in a linear fashion and to some extent these fights need to be refought again and again - that there was just off the top of my head 4 very popular comedy shows which used blackface (with varying degrees of knowingness) around the turn of the millennium after a few decades of it being verboten surely demonstrates this.
8ball
#notallwomenz
The time of these shows was also the heyday of “the irony defence”.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
The Ting Tong joke was at the expense of the sad bloke who thought he could 'buy' a wife who would be subservient to his wishes and forever grateful for his largesse and in return do his household chores and give him sex - that she treated him like shit instead was the joke. That's what was funny. Laughing at the twat who thought his economic and white male privilege entitled him to be treated in a certain way by someone he sought to exploit.
That's what was funny.
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