What Kind of Socialism do you want?

[butchersapron]

Not quite true, as ever with you - you said Red Action were trots, i queried this, you then went mental and put me on ignore., Not had any other interaction with you on any other threads at all. Then you let it slip that i wasn't on ignore. Not that i care.

 

[nino_savatte]

Sorry, I should have said he/she was pestering me on a minor semantic point.

Oh, the small-mindedness of it all.

 

[butchersapron]

Your assumptions are wrong and so we have to rebuild the base before we can proceed Torres. You are jumping to quickly beyond primary socialisation, education, housing/welfare/ and other statist ideas to an imagined future where all these can be disregarded and instead there is the immediate choise of autonomy. I wish it were true BUT it is not. You will remain a utopian unless you have some position on the ideology(s) of the superstructure...

Say, for example, that i accept your elitest model and all it contains, what is the practical upshot? Tell me that. Tell me that if everyone else is brainwashed, or complicit in existing structures and too thick to see it, who then is going to educate them out of that and on what grounds (non-self-selecting ones please) are these advanced teachers standing - what's their special powers that have allowed them to rent the mystificatory veil asunder - you mean intellectuals don't you? You mean people like who you think you are. Remind me why you're not a classical leninst?

 

[butchersapron]

Sorry, I should have said he/she was pestering me on a minor semantic point.

Oh, the small-mindedness of it all.

Right, so something very different and still not on ignore. Garlands for this one! Praise!

 

[nino_savatte]

^^^^^^

 

[butchersapron]

Great - Nino's following me around and going mental. Whilst accusing others of following him around (and backing down 2 seconds later). Marvellous.

 

[tbaldwin]

Oh dear.

Last time I drew tbaldwins' attention to the parallels between his position and that of the likes of Mosley and A. K. Chesterton I had to put up with him denying he was a racist and his friends all having a go at me while telling me what a brave anti-fascist he was.

Because, as usual, he and his chums entirely missed the point I was making, which wasn't that he was racist or fascist, but that there were parallels between his and their views.

Hopefully you won't get a bawling out by those who don't see the rather large distinction.

I said then that i thought it was a ridiculous thing to say. I still think its crap. I could draw a parralell between anybody who had critical things to say about the Tories....And as the BNP dont like them......
It was a pathetic arguement. There are parallels between me and the present day BNP as well....I think there against rail privatisation,anti social crime and the NHS wasting money....So therefore i must be a supporter....eh....Great logic.......

 

[nino_savatte]

That isn't what VP is saying and you know it, baldwin....dunno, maybe you don't...maybe you find it easier to read things into what folk are saying. Maybe you just do it because you can't stand the thought of such ideas being championed by the BNP.

Personally speaking, I think you're closer to Pol Pot than you realise.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Sorry, I should have said he/she was pestering me on a minor semantic point.

Oh, the small-mindedness of it all.

I rather like the idea that describing Red Action as trots is a minor semantic point; I seem to recall that they thought it was a little more signifficant than that. Then again I doubt they'd have put anyone 'on ignore' over it.

Thanks for the entertainment - Louis MacNeice

 

[nino_savatte]

I rather like the idea that describing Red Action as trots is a minor semantic point; I seem to recall that they thought it was a little more signifficant than that. Then again I doubt they'd have put anyone 'on ignore' over it.

Thanks for the entertainment - Louis MacNeice

Er, I never described them as trots. I described them as having been formed by "schismatic trots".

Big difference.

 

[butchersapron]

Er, I never described them as trots. I described them as having been formed by "schismatic trots".

Big difference.

Here's your exact quote Nino (with my emphasis):

The RA are schismatic trots who left the SWP. What's the problem with that statement? It's true

Where does this leave you now?

 

[nino_savatte]

Here's your exact quote Nino (with my emphasis):



Where does this leave you now?

And who are they now?

Are you RA, torres?

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Er, I never described them as trots. I described them as having been formed by "schismatic trots".

Big difference.

I don't think the 'schism' was over differing takes on Trotsky do you?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[ViolentPanda]

I said then that i thought it was a ridiculous thing to say. I still think its crap. I could draw a parralell between anybody who had critical things to say about the Tories....And as the BNP dont like them......
It was a pathetic arguement. There are parallels between me and the present day BNP as well....I think there against rail privatisation,anti social crime and the NHS wasting money....So therefore i must be a supporter....eh....Great logic.......

And yet again tbaldwin manages to miss the point by a country mile.

He's nothing if not consistent!

 

[butchersapron]

And who are they now?

Are you RA, torres?

Tell you what, you admit that you got a 'minor point' very wrong and then tried to cover it up in an embarassing fashion, then got found out and i'll let you know.

I await your reply.

 

[nino_savatte]

I don't think the 'schism' was over differing takes on Trotsky do you?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

I think the fact that they left the SWP is pretty schismatic. What else would you describe it as? A simple parting of the ways?

The Christian church broke in a schism over the use of religious icons (among other things). No one seems to have a problem describing that break as a "schism".

 

[nino_savatte]

Tell you what, you admit that you got a 'minor point' very wrong and then tried to cover it up in an embarassing fashion, then got found out and i'll let you know.

I await your reply.

Oh, you're such a bully. I guess it goes with the territory - eh?

RA were formed by schismatic trots; people who had left the SWP. There is nothing false about that statement.

 

[butchersapron]

The RA are schismatic trots who left the SWP. What's the problem with that statement? It's true.

Er, I never described them as trots. I described them as having been formed by "schismatic trots".

Which is it?

 

[nino_savatte]

Which is it?

You're a sectarian limpet and it's irritating.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

I think the fact that they left the SWP is pretty schismatic. What else would you describe it as? A simple parting of the ways?

The Christian church broke in a schism over the use of religious icons (among other things). No one seems to have a problem describing that break as a "schism".

I put the inverted commas around schism because it is usually used in a religious sense (which obviously isn't the case here), but if your simply using it to mean split then ok. The bit that made me smile was the description of them as Trots.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[butchersapron]

You were either lying in the second or wrong in the first nino. So which was it?

 

[nino_savatte]

Cultists, eh? Dontcha love 'em?

 

[butchersapron]

I put the inverted commas around schism because it is usually used in a religious sense (which obviously isn't the case here), but if your simply using it to mean split then ok. The bit that made me smile was the description of them as Trots.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

He'll have you ignore for laughing at that in a minute. After calling you a troll, a trot and any other thing that pops into his busy little mind.

 

[butchersapron]

Cultists, eh? Dontcha love 'em?

Job done - thanks nino. Laid out bare for all to see.

 

[nino_savatte]

I put the inverted commas around schism because it is usually used in a religious sense (which obviously isn't the case here), but if your simply using it to mean split then ok. The bit that made me smile was the description of them as Trots.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

I think you'll find that I am permitted to use the word "schism" in a descriptive way; there is nothing wrong with that. If I were writing a book on the subject, I would be inclined to use the word in that way.

 

[butchersapron]

What about the trots bit nino?

 

[nino_savatte]

Job done - thanks nino. Laid out bare for all to see.

"Job done"? No one could ever accuse you of modesty...but one could describe you as a cultist.

 

[nino_savatte]

He'll have you ignore for laughing at that in a minute. After calling you a troll, a trot and any other thing that pops into his busy little mind.

The gang's all here. How about you, you wee cultist, what's the crack?

 

[butchersapron]

"Job done"? No one could ever accuse you of modesty...but one could describe you as a cultist.

You could if you liked. I'd ask you on what grounds though.

For pointing out that red action are not trots and that you tried to bluff your way out of it (you're on ignore) or by lying about it ( i never said they were)?

 

[butchersapron]

The gang's all here. How about you, you wee cultist, what's the crack?

I'm not sure why you keep calling me a cultist - are you? Is it to lead people away from the lying arse you've made of yourself?