equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
Excellent c&p work by the way el-ahrairah
Urban v's the Commentariat
- Thread starter Belushi
- Start date
Rural
Active Member
I really hate the way this argument feeds into the self-hatred survivors of abuse often feel. It seems like a way of blaming more victims, adding to the guilt they already have dumped on them. Because a section of abuse survivors are brought up in an environment where the abuse is so normalised & all-encompassing that they carry on this pattern as adults, does not mean at all that most abuse survivors go on to abuse. Seems to me a way of focusing blame on the victims rather than looking at who the abusers are.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
Urban75 poster, revolutionary socialist and ethical personal brand builder Laurie Penny has an op-ed in the New York Times. Take that h8rs
Don't forget anarchist, Lib Dem supporter, Labour supporter, feminist, journalist, TV commentator, author and anything else that might cross off another box in Bullshit Bingo.
A few more demographics and she'll win a carriage clock and some ornamental crystal tumblers.
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
Theisticle
Well-Known Member
Laurie Penny, Helen Lewis, and Mary Beard podcast for 'Outspoken Women' aka Oxbridge Mafia: https://audioboo.fm/boos/2364277-th...urie-penny-and-helen-lewis-on-outspoken-women
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
do they explain why it is that, for women certainly, being Outspoken and being Oxbridge educated are interchangable terms and what that says about our society?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
What fucks me off in that paragraph is "...victims of child abuse often grow up to replicate that abuse".
"Often", Laurie? No, you daft twat, a minority of the abused will become abusers. Why not get your "facts" from actual psychological research on the matter, rather than plucking them out of your wiberal arse?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
It doesn't mean that they even "often" go on to become abusers, as La Pennionara claims. She certainly wins "dumb fucker of the month" for that particular morsel of received wisdom bullshit.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Cis kids or trans kids?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You MUST identify by things that i find important.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
who cares?
Rural
Active Member
I find it hard to think lp has a levels at times, let alone a degree from Oxford or Cambridge. Surely she's capable of a little critical thinking/fact checking? Or does she just say anything that sounds populist?
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
If you've been abused then the "common sense" idea that you are likely to go on to become an abuser yourself really isn't going to help you come to terms with it.
Theisticle
Well-Known Member
Christ, 11 minutes into that NS podcast, Penny is already conflating disgusting misogyny with actual critique of her writing.
Theisticle
Well-Known Member
Wow... another NS writer.
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
that is very telling - without the context i can only assume the following may be true.
1. identifying as a oppressed minority doesn't mean that you are one.
2. identifying as a oppressed minority doesn't mean that you aren't a prick.
3. you don't get to decide your identify, they do.
4. no matter what oppression you've got, they are more oppressed than you.
5. unless a person says they are cis, they are not. unless a person says they are trans, they are not. some trans people identify as cis, some cis people identify as trans. this is your problem. you must always use the correct term as decided by a jury of people who think that using the right pronoun is more important than whether or not you're an exploiter of the working classes.
1. identifying as a oppressed minority doesn't mean that you are one.
2. identifying as a oppressed minority doesn't mean that you aren't a prick.
3. you don't get to decide your identify, they do.
4. no matter what oppression you've got, they are more oppressed than you.
5. unless a person says they are cis, they are not. unless a person says they are trans, they are not. some trans people identify as cis, some cis people identify as trans. this is your problem. you must always use the correct term as decided by a jury of people who think that using the right pronoun is more important than whether or not you're an exploiter of the working classes.
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DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
no wonder the statesmen is so dire.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Don't go there then.Wow... another NS writer.
Theisticle
Well-Known Member
Urban75 poster, revolutionary socialist and ethical personal brand builder Laurie Penny has an op-ed in the New York Times. Take that h8rs
She's on her way up..
The Pale King
Well-Known Member
Not in Belgium then where hundreds of thousands marched because they knew this went much deeper than just Mark Dutroux.
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
actually, reading some of that twitter shitstorm, my further relections are that this just shows the problems with identity politics - she is trying to use the language of identity politics to defend her apparently valid criticism of another area of identity politics. she's trying to square a circle here and it can't be done. in the end she will find that her feminist politics make her transphobic, or her trans-friendly politics undermine her feminist analysis. using the wrong tools will fuck up the job.
i don;t think i explained that well. but my point is that identity politics isn't a good way of doing things.
i don;t think i explained that well. but my point is that identity politics isn't a good way of doing things.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Nope, the first bit was very clear and well put.
Theisticle
Well-Known Member
She's just trying to turn 'cis' into a slur when it's not.
E.g.
E.g.
el-ahrairah
forward communism, forward gerbils!
Cis is used as a slur though, all over the identity politics section of the internet. just because they say they don't, we can read context. using the language of sensible intersectional politics, it merely is an identifier, but where intersectionality has become identity politics it is clear that cis is a slur. that's why none of them bang on about being cis. they're all genderqueer even if they're straight people who dress to their birth gender. because to be cis is to lose oppression points. and they need lots of oppression points to make up for the fact they;'re all white middle class people with fuck all real oppression to be victims of. none of them use cis- as a neutral term of description, it's always loaded and used to imply privilege and to shut down voices of opposition.
no vietnamese ever called me cisgendered
no vietnamese ever called me cisgendered
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
or "agender" even if they're a straight white man
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
exactly this.
Other people are cis-gendered (and serial monogamists). "I mean, it's not a bad thing, obviously, it's just the way they are, the simple fools."
But this defeats the whole function of the word "cis", which is NOT TO ASSUME that people are cis.
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