Archbishop of Canterbury, Justin Welby's time is up.

[PR1Berske]

Welby was the conservative evangelical choice. He long had links with the tongue-speaking, hand-wavingTories of HolyTrinity Brompton. He replaced the liberal catholic, sandle-wearing, beardie Rowan Williams, and going by the tradition of alternation will be replaced by someone of that ilk, probably a woman

Fair point. I'd forgotten how woolly Williams was. I'm still less certain about them going for a woman, mind.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Fair point. I'd forgotten how woolly Williams was. I'm still less certain about them going for a woman, mind.

yes.

i must admit that i don't really keep up with C of E business, but i was a bit surprised when one of the news items about this in the last few days involved a female bishop of the opposite sex - i hadn't noticed that they had them now...

 

[farmerbarleymow]

Brian Blessed would make a good Archbish.

 

[dessiato]

So many of these people confuse religion for Christianity and push their religion ahead of the NT and Christ's teachings. Hence the incredible riches of the religions and the amount of suffering and poverty among the people.

 

[PR1Berske]

The Guardian's shortlist (women in italics)

*Stephen Cottrell, archbishop of York
*Guli Francis-Dehqani, bishop of Chelmsford
*Martyn Snow, bishop of Leicester
*Graham Usher, bishop of Norwich
*Rachel Treweek, bishop of Gloucester
*Paul Williams, bishop of Southwell and Nottingham
*Rose Hudson-Wilkin, bishop of Dover

The Telegraph's shortlist (ditto)

*Rt Rev Graham Usher, Bishop of Norwich
*Rt Rev Martyn Snow, Bishop of Leicester
*Rt Rev Michael Beasley, Bishop of Bath and Wells
*Dr Guli Francis-Dehqani, Bishop of Chelmsford

 

[PR1Berske]

The Independent's shortlist

*Stephen Cottrell, archbishop of York
*Sarah Mullaly, Bishop of London
*Guli Francis-Dehqani, Bishop of Chelmsford
*Helen-Ann Hartley, Bishop of Newcastle
*Rachel Treweek, bishop of Gloucester
*Martyn Snow, Bishop of Leicester
*Graham Usher, Bishop of Norwich

 

[Puddy_Tat]

what if they decide to get a foreign manager in, like the england football team?

 

[tim]

what if they decide to get a foreign manager in, like the england football team?

The Bishop of Dover is Jamaican and the Bishop of Chelmsford is Iranian.

 

[mx wcfc]

Bit of background here -

C of E covered up attacks by serial abuser John Smyth, review finds

Report says it is ‘unlikely’ Justin Welby knew nothing of concerns about Smyth, who abused schoolboys at Christian holiday camps

www.theguardian.com

I am happy that the CofE is getting grief about this, but why is Winchester College getting away with it?

 

[tim]

I am happy that the CofE is getting grief about this, but why is Winchester College getting away with it?

Probably, because those who knew about Smyth and did nothing in the Church of England are still in positions of authority. Many of them when younger were part of the Bash Camps culture.

A related issue is the abuse at Emmanuel Church in Wimbledon by Jihnatgan Fketcher, an evangelical priest whose brother was one of the organisers of the camps were Smyth abused.

There is an Evangelical Anglican blog "Surviving Church" that has a lot of information on these links.

Joining up the dots – the Jonathan Fletcher story - Surviving Church

The Internet is a great provider of information. Of course, there are to be found in it lies, rumours and falsehoods. We trust, however, that a reasonably discerning person can detect ‘fake news’ and not fall into the trap of repeating unsubstantiated information. But there is another sort of...

survivingchurch.org

This is the most recent blog post

November 2024 - Surviving Church

At the heart of the Makin report released last Wednesday is an account of the behaviour and beliefs of one seriously damaged and dangerous individual, John Smyth. I do not propose to say much about him here, as his activities, if not his thinking, are well documented in Makin and other...

survivingchurch.org

 

[UrbaneFox]

what if they decide to get a foreign manager in, like the england football team?

No need for that. Gary Lineker will have more time on his hands in the next few decades.

 

[krtek a houby]

No need for that. Gary Lineker will have more time on his hands in the next few decades.

Oh no, what's he allegedly done,?

 

[Humberto]

Oh no, what's he allegedly done,?

Nothing. He's leaving Match of the Day, the BBC's football highlights programme.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

A PM with something about them would put an end to this absurd charade. It is within any PM's power to end this nonsense. Starmer won't.

 

[tim]

A PM with something about them would put an end to this absurd charade. It is within any PM's power to end this nonsense. Starmer won't.

As DPP, particularly if he was in that role in 2013 for this particular case, he should have been more active in prosecuting institutional and other abusers. In his current role, he has a limited say in episcopal appointments in the state church. However, I don't see what more he could do overtly.

It is the role of prosecutors to prosecute suspected offenders for the police, and in this case journalists, to investigate them and for the institutions, religious or otherwise, to deal with their own institutional failures and to remove those responsible for that failure from office.

 

[DotCommunist]

heard the details of this on world service yesterday, I'd clocked welby for the tory wanker he is and now it turns out he's a friend to nonces as well. What a shit. Defrock him. Then make him eat the collar.

 

[Rompipalle]

Bishop of York on the news saying it was teh right thing for Welby to do to protect the church. Not a word about protecting children.

Well, it's just going to be more of them same then, isn't it - regardless of who is the next appointee.

Unless there is a full-scale clear-out of absolutely everyone in the church who tries to excuse abuse in any form, then senior clerics will continue to wring their hands and do precisely bugger all to bring historical abusers to book and to ensure that similar abuse does not happen in future.

Clearly, senior clergy care more about who wears the frocks than caring for their flocks.

 

[Rompipalle]

Me too. It's also why I won't ever be applying to be queen. That purple and gold combo is such a complexion killer.

View attachment 450768

It doesn't even appear to be slimming for the fingers, either.

 

[Boo Radley75]

Daily Mail have somehow found a way to blame this on Meghan..

 

[Rompipalle]

Daily Mail have somehow found a way to blame this on Meghan..View attachment 450825

It was only a matter of time...

 

[Sue]

It was only a matter of time...

Have they managed to mention Princess Di too or is that more of an Express thing?

 

[polly]

His resignation statement shows no shame or understanding of how much he fucked it. Made me so angry to hear it yesterday, the bit about expecting something to have been done about Smyth in 2013 in particular - why didn't he fucking follow up on that expectation then??

Then some Bishop on the radio this morning huffily talking about a witch hunt and suggesting everyone is unreasonably expecting bishops to shoulder the burden of safeguarding. I mean, people have been reporting issues up the chain and bishops have helped to cover them up so wtf.

Burn the whole thing down.

 

[Rompipalle]

Have they managed to mention Princess Di too or is that more of an Express thing?

I've no idea. I wouldn't read the Mail for anything.

Not sure though how such vile rags propose to get around the angle of the King having been crowned by a protector/apologist for paedophiles.

 

[stavros]

No need for that. Gary Lineker will have more time on his hands in the next few decades.

He'd update Communion:

 

[DJWrongspeed]

Bit of background here -

C of E covered up attacks by serial abuser John Smyth, review finds

Report says it is ‘unlikely’ Justin Welby knew nothing of concerns about Smyth, who abused schoolboys at Christian holiday camps

www.theguardian.com

Thanks, Still puzzled though. These camps were run by the Iwerne Trust , the question being were they employees of the CofE. It's not clear. Just because Welby was there is that relevant? I don't quite understand the CofEs culpability in Smyth's abuse.

 

[VivaE]

I've no idea. I wouldn't read the Mail for anything.

Not sure though how such vile rags propose to get around the angle of the King having been crowned by a protector/apologist for paedophiles.

Charles is no stranger to befriending and supporting paedophile bishops. And other non-bishops, of course, as we know. And then, when confronted with the reality of them, claiming hand-wringing innocence and/or declaring that they were the ones at fault for misleading poor innocent him.

Nothing whatsoever to so with his historic and egregious lack of judgement in terms of the company he kept and keeps to this day.

Friendship with Prince Charles made paedophile bishop Peter Ball 'impregnable'

BBC2 documentary shows how establishment figures rallied round cleric

www.theguardian.com

 

[Petcha]

Some bonkers crazy idiot 'bishopp' or whatever on C4 right saying 'this is not the jesus christ that i know'

Jesus was a good salesman, you idiot. Sold a lot of books, yes, more than JK Rowling (so far). But just a man. So fuck off with your stupid hats and completely unironic 'dog collars'. Just fuck off.

 

[Wilf]

Thanks, Still puzzled though. These camps were run by the Iwerne Trust , the question being were they employees of the CofE. It's not clear. Just because Welby was there is that relevant? I don't quite understand the CofEs culpability in Smyth's abuse.

He was part of the Cof E though, as a lay reader - an 'office holder' - and also someone who sought ordination. The bit from his wiki page below adds further to what they knew about his behaviour (in that his noncery may well have been the reason for multiple rejections).

Having moved his family to life in Winchester, they attended Christ Church, Winchester, an evangelical Church of England church. From November 1973 to May 1974, he trained as a lay reader, and then having completed his training, served at Christ Church. This made him an "office holder" in the Church of England, although readers are not ordained and remain part of the laity.[11] He had attempted to be ordained in the Diocese of York in 1980 and in the Diocese of Winchester in 1981, and perhaps also the Diocese of Oxford, but was rejected at each attempt:[11]: 40  the Makin Review concluded that "it is reasonable to assume that either something was known of John Smyth’s abuse or he was considered to be unsuitable on account of something else".[11]: 227  By October 1982, he was no longer listed as a lay reader in the Diocese of Winchester.[11]

 

[DJWrongspeed]

He was part of the Cof E though, as a lay reader - an 'office holder' - and also someone who sought ordination. The bit from his wiki page below adds further to what they knew about his behaviour (in that his noncery may well have been the reason for multiple rejections).

Thx for that , I didn't know what Lay Reader meant. Clears it up.

 

[tim]

Thanks, Still puzzled though. These camps were run by the Iwerne Trust , the question being were they employees of the CofE. It's not clear. Just because Welby was there is that relevant? I don't quite understand the CofEs culpability in Smyth's abuse.

They were the so-called Bash Camps founded by a chap named Nash. Their aim was to create a cadre of conservative evangelical leaders recruited from only the most prestigious public schools, who would wage was against liberalism and Anglo-Catholicism. They succeeded in their aim producing lots of evangelical clergy and bishops dominating one wing of the C of E- an Anglican Militant Tendency but obviously more committed and successful.

Here is traditional evangelical view

‘Bash’

‘Bash’ On 27 July Rev. John Stott went to be with the Lord. The man responsible for pointing him to Christ as a public schoolboy was Rev. E. J. H. Nash. This article remembers this unusual, but devoted, servant of Jesus Christ. It was half an hour into the service. A man slipped quietly into...

www.evangelical-times.org

And more realistically

The abusive toxic culture produced by the evangelical doctrine of penal substitution — Unadulterated Love

The Iwerne Trust produced many of the most prominent Evangelical Christian leaders, people associated with Reformed theology in the Church of England over the past 40 years. At the heart of the Iwerne philosophy was a brand of wholehearted, sacrificial, masculine Christianity maintained by a detaile

www.unadulteratedlove.net