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Urban v's the Commentariat

killer b said:
:hmm:


Helen Lewis
@helenlewis


My advice for writers now boils down to: a) don't strip-mine your life for anecdotes; b) don't end up writing for your 20 worst critics.
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My advice for writers is 1) go to private school 2) go to Oxbridge 3) write whatever inane shit you want 4) exploit the unpaid labour of people further down the pyramid scheme 5) ££££££££££
 
It's funny, I think deep down she means well on one level, but constantly mucks up, gets lost in her vacuousness and sense of self-importance. Teenage confessional writing meets shoddy activism. But cynically, I think a lot of what she writes is a vehicle for brand building. The funniest thing is now Penny would fail her own editor's advice about strip-mining for anecdotes.

She can write about race, trans issues or other topics, but I don't think her range as a writer can really expand beyond her own experiences meshed with dubious sources (why does she rarely link to statistics?) She certainly does not deserve a lot of the gross online misogynistic abuse but her inability to listen to the groups she writes about is breathtaking.

You could perhaps understand if she was 18 and a little 'wet behind the ears' but she's closer to thirty now - and this sort of behaviour is a long-running problem.

If she learnt to listen to people who mean well in critique and she genuinely made efforts to improve as a writer, she would be on the way onto something more helpful. I hold no malice towards her. Far from it, but her inability to see beyond her own privileged bubble is staggering. It's tiresome to read her get so defensive when faced with genuine and constructive feedback and criticism.

But does she have the ability to improve? I'm not sure, but happy to be proved wrong.
 
butchersapron said:
Astonishing - three women. All private school. All Oxbridge. All examples of what outspoken women should be. No swinging maces or that here. All white panel again. And yet again, my mum's not on there.
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Or mine. She was born in Oxford so they could have done the whole Gown and Town thing too.
 
Theisticle said:
It's funny, I think deep down she means well on one level, but constantly mucks up, gets lost in her vacuousness and sense of self-importance. Teenage confessional writing meets shoddy activism. But cynically, I think a lot of what she writes is a vehicle for brand building. The funniest thing is now Penny would fail her own editor's advice about strip-mining for anecdotes.

She can write about race, trans issues or other topics, but I don't think her range as a writer can really expand beyond her own experiences meshed with dubious sources (why does she rarely link to statistics?) She certainly does not deserve a lot of the gross online misogynistic abuse but her inability to listen to the groups she writes about is breathtaking.

You could perhaps understand if she was 18 and a little 'wet behind the ears' but she's closer to thirty now - and this sort of behaviour is a long-running problem.

If she learnt to listen to people who mean well in critique and she genuinely made efforts to improve as a writer, she would be on the way onto something more helpful. I hold no malice towards her. Far from it, but her inability to see beyond her own privileged bubble is staggering. It's tiresome to read her get so defensive when faced with genuine and constructive feedback and criticism.

But does she have the ability to improve? I'm not sure, but happy to be proved wrong.
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I think you've neatly summarised her behaviour. It's the failure to listen that I really think lets her down the most. That said, failure to listen isn't a crime, and it certainly doesn't warrant the rape threats and other delights she is subjected to with depressing regularity.
 
equationgirl said:
I think you've neatly summarised her behaviour. It's the failure to listen that I really think lets her down the most. That said, failure to listen isn't a crime, and it certainly doesn't warrant the rape threats and other delights she is subjected to with depressing regularity.
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Her failure to listen isn't what brings on the horrific abuse and rape threats she gets though. IMO the trumpets who launch abuse at Penny don't do so coz of her failings as a commentator, they do it coz she's a woman with a voice - And they'd still do it (possibly even moreso) if she was a woman with a voice who actually knew what she was talking about. Still though, you're right, she certainly doesn't deserve rape threats and such.
 
I hope that didn't come across as a defence of rape threatening scumbags, there can be no defence for that sort of online abuse for anyone.
 
Bragg's amazing Glasto "Recharge Your Activism" tshirt reminds me that we could do with a newish PD one.

Top up your activism with this fine T that plugs into any car lighter or household plug socket (please note, this T doesn’t do either of those things) and lights up the faces of those around you in the shared glow of seeing society re-organised so that that everyone has access to the means by which to reach their full potential.
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Billy's variation on the old what do YOU do gag goes a bit wrong.

bragg activism recharge.jpg
 
equationgirl said:
I think you've neatly summarised her behaviour. It's the failure to listen that I really think lets her down the most. That said, failure to listen isn't a crime, and it certainly doesn't warrant the rape threats and other delights she is subjected to with depressing regularity.
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I think it's failure to listen combined with *I'm the closest thing u can get to trans/black/sex worker/etc, without actually being any one of these things. Because friends.*

Her IRL friends are very much like her from what I've seen. They are the ones who back her up on twitter when the *intersectional world* is offering a critique of her work. They (her friends) usually say things like "stop picking on Laurie", "she's really nice", "this is making her upset". U know the sort of thing. Not aimed at any of the actual points, just doing their best as they see it to defend a pal.
 

It's the whole 'choices' thing that gets me here, as if the difference between the rest of us and nice good people like Tony Benn and this Olivia Knight is that they choose to work for nice ethical employers (LOL @ that in regards to the Graunid, Eurostar and Co-Op) whereas the dumb proles choose to work for Tesco or whatever because they are ignorant. The message seems to be that we can all live good ethical lives under free market capitalism if only we make the right choices, there is a lot of neoliberal ideology in this article.

IMO the most salient point on there is in the comments section

Getting free publicity for your business in the Guardian shows you are good at marketing
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