emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
There really are a few. Or perhaps to be fully fair to them. Support the Russian invasion of Ukraine and see it ad positive thing.
Which is fucking insane to me.
Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24
- Thread starter kebabking
- Start date
Which is fucking insane to me.
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
Afaics, the posters who may be perceived as supportive of the Russian invasion are for the most part, highlighting the hypocrisy of the US, and concerned about far right elements within the Ukraine resistance.
Pretty sure that you and them don't wish for more bloodshed. Obviously, it's not down to a bunch of passionate commentators on urban.
A compromise may be the only way to halt the war. Maybe even giving up territories.
Which will be tough to swallow, but better than the use of nukes.
I don't know what the answer is - am not an expert in geopolitics and warfare.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
sure that's just your interpretation tho, and your ability to interpret's at best questionable
Skinny Ethel
Well-Known Member
It would be similar to getting a covid injection off Harold Shipman if you were 85 years old.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Shipman's still dangerous from beyond the grave I hear
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
I will give you some credit your position is presented with more sophistication than others.
But let me explain a bit more about human communication for you.
You can infer a lot about someone's position on a subject with the following information.
The things they chose to say directly
The way in which they say those things
The information that they think is worth sharing
The things they choose not to say (this one is oftern missed but it very important)
Who they chose to argue in support of
Who they chose to argue against
As sIlly as it sounds in an environment lIke urban even which posts they choose to like
Lots of other things I didn’t think of.
Let's take an example, let's say someone never outright stated their position but only ever posted stories about Russian successes never Ukrainian ones. Most people would reasonable interpret this as meaning they favour Russia. But if every post implied upset or disappointment, then instead most people will think they favour Ukraine but have a pessimistic outlook.
Do you see how that works? How ideas are communicated?
This for the reocrd is why I and many others say there are posters here who support Russia without them having to type out the words, it's Just obvious form their behaviour.
So yes my interpretation of you posting on this thread is you favour a Russian victory. Unlike TopCat I don't think you are exactly happy about any of it no gless at dead, but I do think it is your preferred outcome. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only poster who thinks that either. Maybe I'm wrong buy I seem to remember that initially you came across as more neutral than you do now.
If you feel that is grossly wrong, well if multiple people are getting the same impression maybe you could consider looking at why you are communication that impression to multiple people and is there something you can do to change that impression. Or you can decide you don't care. Up to you.
Oh and just so it doesn't get lost because you do like to deflect. Please remember that I was echoing your own words back at you so anything you say about me applies just as much to you.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I expect a Russian victory is more probable now. I have never said, suggested or implied any desire for such an outcome. Anyone who is genuinely anti-war can't pick a side in a war and then back it - to echo your words back to you, wanting the US driven out of eg Vietnam,wanting them to lose, is desiring a side to prevail.
I've said there's no good outcome for this current conflict, whether Ukraine or Russia prevail on the field or in the negotiating chamber. And there isn't, great unhappiness will last for decades in Russia and Ukraine because of this stupid war.
I don't feel the need to line myself up alongside people cheering for one side or the other. I don't feel the need to constantly signal my virtue as some other people do by eagerly anticipating things that will never happen, like putin being imprisoned over this. And it's really stupid to adduce from this, as you do, that I favour a Russian victory.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
On the first paragraph we are at least in full agreement.
As for the second but you do line yourself up with them?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
that's not the second paragraph. the first paragraph is the second paragraph.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
What a depressing thread of armchair war-mongering on all sides.
I'm not in any sort of position to say what Ukrainian (or Russian for that matter) civilians should do in the face of Putin's despotic aggression but a distanced discussion would be a better read than the posturing and performative condemnations that some here find themselves falling into.
I'm not in any sort of position to say what Ukrainian (or Russian for that matter) civilians should do in the face of Putin's despotic aggression but a distanced discussion would be a better read than the posturing and performative condemnations that some here find themselves falling into.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
What utter nonsense.
The only war mongering going on here is coming from those who'd see Putin's disgusting aggression rewarded with negotiations that would see Ukraine lose masses of their sovereign territory, and his filthy thugs go unpunished for the mass rape and murder of Ukrainian civilians.
The most revolting aspect of their position is that it's not, in any way, motivated by concern for the Ukrainian victims, but by their own childishly wanky politics and desire to see an ally of "The West" lose.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
They don't want peace. They want a Russian victory.
If the war ended with a humiliating Russian withdrawal tomorrow they'd be gutted.
maomao
普費斯
How do you want to punish them and how do you think they will be punished?
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
By losing and being fucked back off to Russia having gained nothing.
maomao
普費斯
Do you think that's likely in the near future?
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
I want peace
I want a Russian withdrawal tomorrow.
I don't want the cost of that to be the escalation or continuation of an invasion and subsequent war leading to the deaths of 100,000s of civilians, conscripts and reluctant volunteers.
My wants are unrealistic. I know. But I'm still not going to cheer on the alternatives. Nobody is going to "win" this war.
Flavour
hang the bankers
The idea that any negotiated settlement where Ukraine gives up territory in return for "peace" will be long-lasting, or bring stability to the region, is really quite naive. NATO may effectively cease to exist in less than 2 months. Putin is already committed to specific low level attacks on the UK and on UK soil (Salisbury), does anyone think that a negotiated peace and defeat for Ukraine will put an end to that threat?
Shit like this is really the tip of the iceberg. The Trump era will give Putin a much freer hand to attack his remaining Western enemies (particularly the UK and France) in much worse ways than this: Western officials suspect Russia was behind a plot to put incendiary packages on cargo planes
Shit like this is really the tip of the iceberg. The Trump era will give Putin a much freer hand to attack his remaining Western enemies (particularly the UK and France) in much worse ways than this: Western officials suspect Russia was behind a plot to put incendiary packages on cargo planes
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Nope.
Equally though, does anyone really think a) that Ukraine can inflict a military defeat on Russia now with other states joining in? or that b) such an escalation will make things better for anyone?
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
You can disagree with the positions being taken. But despite what some Try to claim there are posters who want to see a Russia victory and Ukraine occupied. And I don't accept there is any kind of moral equivalence to be drawn.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Do you think Ukraine just giving up makes things better for everyone?
Defeat is a relative term I've said before that in some ways Ukraine had already inflicted a Defeat on Russia as this is clearly not what was planned. They have have held out beyond what anyone expected. If things froze as they are now it would only look like a defeat because people forgot that and got their hopes up.
It's not what I want but right now the closest I can see to some kind of lasting peace is to let Russia keep what it has and arm the rest of Ukraine to the fucking teeth, and maybe let them join NATO, to keep Russia in their box. Is it a good resolution no, can I see anything better? As a workers revolution looks of the cars, no I can't. But it won't happen because Russia will not agree to it anyway.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
I haven't advocated "Ukraine just giving up" (whatever that means).
I'm not advocating that the Ukrainians (or Russians) do anything. I'm not in a position to do that.
All I can do is argue that "my" government doesn't do anything that makes things worse and continue resist the discursive normalisation of the slaughter of tens of thousands of ordinary men, women and children in the name of nation states that don't give a fuck about them, and never have.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Meanwhile, UK missiles get fired
Ukraine-Russia latest: UK-supplied Storm Shadow missiles fired into Russia for first time
The UK government is not commenting on the reports but the defence secretary says “Ukraine’s action on the battlefield speaks for itself”.
www.bbc.co.uk
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
No, it's unlikely that they'll kick them out completely.
What can be done is to make it as painful as possible for the Russians to hold on to what they have, enable Ukraine to negotiate on as favourable terms as possible if and when they decide to, and hopefully forestall any further Russian imperialist land grabs.
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The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Posters might fondly remember the period in late Spring last year where there were a number of somewhat optimistic , some might say reckless, proposals for dividing up Russia. Plans for dividing up Brazil and South Africa followed.
Interfax-Ukraine and RBC-Ukraine have recently published these maps from 'sources in the intelligence community' which are allegedly from a Russian risk assessment of the global military-political situation until 2045. This is one scenario for Ukraine.
The key is red= part of the Russian Republic, orange =pro-Russian state formation and yellow = disputed territories which Russia which Russia would discuss their future with plans to divide with Hungary, Poland, and Romania who are on their borders.
newsukraine.rbc.ua
Interfax-Ukraine and RBC-Ukraine have recently published these maps from 'sources in the intelligence community' which are allegedly from a Russian risk assessment of the global military-political situation until 2045. This is one scenario for Ukraine.
The key is red= part of the Russian Republic, orange =pro-Russian state formation and yellow = disputed territories which Russia which Russia would discuss their future with plans to divide with Hungary, Poland, and Romania who are on their borders.
Russia creates plan for division of Ukraine and may offer it to USA - Media
Read more
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Posters might fondly remember the period in late Spring last year where there were a number of somewhat optimistic , some might say reckless, proposals for dividing up Russia. Plans for dividing up Brazil and South Africa followed.
Interfax-Ukraine and RBC-Ukraine have recently published these maps from 'sources in the intelligence community' which are allegedly from a Russian risk assessment of the global military-political situation until 2045. This is one scenario for Ukraine.
View attachment 451894
The key is red= part of the Russian Republic, orange =pro-Russian state formation and yellow = disputed territories which Russia which Russia would discuss their future with plans to divide with Hungary, Poland, and Romania who are on their borders.
Russia creates plan for division of Ukraine and may offer it to USA - Media
Read more
I imagine that's currently going down like a shit sandwich in Ukraine.
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