Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[Kevbad the Bad]

yeh but the trusting hitler and so on are rather different points and don't really speak to the issue at hand. sure, if you read e.g. robert conquest's works on the great terror it seems like a vast self-inflicted wound. not being a stalinist i'm not going to argue thje necessity or desirability of the purges, a huge amount of bloodshed. you make it sound like the ukrainian guerrillas were acting on their own, plucky fighters against the soviets. only they had support from eg the united states and probably saved the career of nazi spymaster reinhard gehlen (see for example Nationalism and fascism in Ukraine: A historical overview). i don't know much about the fighting in the baltic states, but i don't suppose that they caused so much russian trauma in comparison to the latvian, lithuanian and estonian trauma that ensued.

Now then. I'm not saying anything about Ukrainian fighters post WW2 being plucky. Desperate probably, but plucky who knows? All I was saying was that Russia went on being far more traumatised than we were, for example. What with revolution, civil war, insurrections, forced famines, terrors, purges, mass incarcerations, forced collectivisation, ethnic cleansing, mass population transfers, destruction of cultures and then invasion and all the rest.

 

[Pickman's model]

Now then. I'm not saying anything about Ukrainian fighters post WW2 being plucky. Desperate probably, but plucky who knows? All I was saying was that Russia went on being far more traumatised than we were, for example. What with revolution, civil war, insurrections, forced famines, terrors, purges, mass incarcerations, forced collectivisation, ethnic cleansing, mass population transfers, destruction of cultures and then invasion and all the rest.

Seems to me you've been replying to the wrong poster

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Seems to me you've been replying to the wrong poster

Always the best policy.

 

[TopCat]

Twenty years since the big eastwards expansion of NATO.

• Against the backdrop of war in Ukraine, several central and eastern European countries began marking on Thursday the 20th anniversary of the largest expansion of Nato when formerly socialist countries became members. Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia joined Nato on 29 March 2004. Other former Soviet satellites including Poland and the Czech Republic had been admitted several years earlier.

 

[Rimbaud]

fair do's, they didnt sack him for that then.

Any self-reflection over your news sources when you are still credulously repeating deepfaked Russian misinformation debunked 5 days prior?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Twenty years since the big eastwards expansion of NATO.

• Against the backdrop of war in Ukraine, several central and eastern European countries began marking on Thursday the 20th anniversary of the largest expansion of Nato when formerly socialist countries became members. Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia joined Nato on 29 March 2004. Other former Soviet satellites including Poland and the Czech Republic had been admitted several years earlier.

Edited:
And seeing what them cunts in the Kremlin have been doing for the past ten years in the former socialist country of Ukraine it is clear that these countries made a good choice, no Russians raping and murdering their way around any of them en masse.

 

[Pickman's model]

And seeing what them cunts in the Kremlin have been doing for the past ten years in the former socialist country of Ukraine it is clear that these countries made a good choice, no Russians raping and murdering their way around any of them.

You haven't heard of Alexander Litvinenko then, or Dawn Sturgess.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

You haven't heard of Alexander Litvinenko then, or Dawn Sturgess.

You quoted as was editing.

 

[Spymaster]

Twenty years since the big eastwards expansion of NATO.

• Against the backdrop of war in Ukraine, several central and eastern European countries began marking on Thursday the 20th anniversary of the largest expansion of Nato when formerly socialist countries became members. Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia joined Nato on 29 March 2004. Other former Soviet satellites including Poland and the Czech Republic had been admitted several years earlier.

So none of those countries have been attacked by Russia, and Russia hasn’t been attacked by NATO, proving their supposed fears of western expansion groundless.

NATO is brilliant isn’t it? A veritable global peace machine.

 

[Ax^]

pfft it clear provocation that gives putin every right to attack it close neighbor Ukraine...

or at least that what been argued on here for about 997 pages

 

[SpookyFrank]

Twenty years since the big eastwards expansion of NATO.

• Against the backdrop of war in Ukraine, several central and eastern European countries began marking on Thursday the 20th anniversary of the largest expansion of Nato when formerly socialist countries became members. Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia joined Nato on 29 March 2004. Other former Soviet satellites including Poland and the Czech Republic had been admitted several years earlier.

When's the anniversary of them voluntarily joining the Warsaw pact according to the policies of their democratically elected governments?

 

[Spymaster]

pfft it clear provocation that gives putin every right to attack it close neighbor Ukraine...

And this despite the fact that no other country has invaded Russia since 1941, whilst they in turn have rampaged over half of their neighbours, Hungary, Czechoslovakia …

 

[Pickman's model]

.

 

[ska invita]

Standstill then.
Russia has said what area it considers annexed , some of which is not yet fully occupied. I expect that is the limit of the territorial movements we will see in the short term + maybe a little more around north east border to form a 'buffer zone' there.

*this is based on logic and reading the situation rather than any military intelligence which i obviously dont have access to

what Ive said above is backed up here in the FT:

"Russian units are not sweeping across the battlefield as they did in February 2022. But they are making small and steady gains in southern and eastern Ukraine and are seemingly intent on capturing Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporizhzhia, Dnipropetrovsk and Kharkiv regions over the next 34 months, according to the Centre for Defence Strategies, a Ukrainian security think-tank. "

So even Ukrainian military experts think thats what Russia will do, limit themselves to solidify the annexed territory. And I wouldn't be surprised if the US thinks the same behind the scenes and so is quite comfortable to stop its funding and consider this the end. (its been the end like this for many months already) Meanwhile as the link above says Ukraine are digging in themselves, those trenches the foundations of that new border

While I expect Russia would like to fill in these white areas in the annexed states, Im not sure it really matters that much to them if they draw red perfectly within the lines. I think theyd definitely like to fill it in more though

 

[Elpenor]

Been to the RAF museum in Cosford today. The Cold War galleries unsurprisingly cover the role NATO had during that period, and their crimes, but also touches on the activities of CND, such as the marches to Greenham Common, US embassy protests etc.

Quite a sobering reminder of how close we are to this time again thanks to NATO expansionism eastward and increased militarism by all states and factions.

Depressing how urban now seems to be as bellicose as the US was in Vietnam.

 

[editor]

Depressing how urban now seems to be as bellicose as the US was in Vietnam.

What utter tosh you utter.

 

[Elpenor]

What utter tosh you utter.

Someone didn’t get a thesaurus for Christmas

When there are pro war posters on your board wishing that the Baltimore bridge collision had happened in Russia; I have to ask where’s the humanity gone on this board? Any anti-war post is shot down by the NATO neophytes.

Am I posting on ARRSE or urban?

 

[emanymton]

What utter tosh you utter.

I don't know there are quite a few pro-war posters on here who are fully in support of Russia's invasion.

 

[emanymton]

Someone didn’t get a thesaurus for Christmas

When there are pro war posters on your board wishing that the Baltimore bridge collision had happened in Russia; I have to ask where’s the humanity gone on this board? Any anti-war post is shot down by the NATO neophytes.

Am I posting on ARRSE or urban?

You're posting out of your arse if that helps.

 

[Silas Loom]

Someone didn’t get a thesaurus for Christmas

When there are pro war posters on your board wishing that the Baltimore bridge collision had happened in Russia; I have to ask where’s the humanity gone on this board? Any anti-war post is shot down by the NATO neophytes.

Am I posting on ARRSE or urban?

If you’re talking about my Kerch bridge comment, that is very much not a location “in Russia”. It is a bridge across the strait which merely links Russia with temporarily occupied Ukraine.

You should probably avoid using Kremlin geography if you want to pose as a simple seeker of peace.

 

[Elpenor]

If you’re talking about my Kerch bridge comment, that is not a bridge in Russia. It is a bridge that links Russia with temporarily occupied Ukraine.

You should probably avoid using Kremlin geography if you want to pose as a simple seeker of peace.

Are there any other tragic disasters you would like to transplace?

Your post was disgusting, the equivalent of the Suns Gotcha headline

 

[Silas Loom]

Are there any other tragic disasters you would like to transplace?

Your post was disgusting, the equivalent of the Suns Gotcha headline

The Kerch bridge is a key logistical enabler of a brutal invasion, and anyone who is not a moral imbecile would be delighted to see it topple.

 

[editor]

Someone didn’t get a thesaurus for Christmas

When there are pro war posters on your board wishing that the Baltimore bridge collision had happened in Russia; I have to ask where’s the humanity gone on this board? Any anti-war post is shot down by the NATO neophytes.

Am I posting on ARRSE or urban?

You're talking about a truly microscopic amount of individuals and then insisting that they somehow represent the entire user base of this forum.
You're being ridiculous.

 

[editor]

Twenty years since the big eastwards expansion of NATO.

• Against the backdrop of war in Ukraine, several central and eastern European countries began marking on Thursday the 20th anniversary of the largest expansion of Nato when formerly socialist countries became members. Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia joined Nato on 29 March 2004. Other former Soviet satellites including Poland and the Czech Republic had been admitted several years earlier.

Why do you think that they might have wanted to join NATO?

 

[Elpenor]

The Kerch bridge is a key logistical enabler of a brutal invasion, and anyone who is not a moral imbecile would be delighted to see it topple.

Maybe I’m a moral imbecile then as I just want the war to stop. Rather be that than the sadistic sort like yourself celebrating people dying. Got any shares in the reconstruction?

 

[Yossarian]

Are there any other tragic disasters you would like to transplace?

Would be good to see the Erfurt latrine disaster repeated next time Putin meets with military leadership

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Maybe I’m a moral imbecile then as I just want the war to stop.

So do the Ukrainians, they would like it to stop today. There's just one thing that's preventing that from happening.

 

[Elpenor]

So do the Ukrainians, they would like it to stop today. There's just one thing that's preventing that from happening.

Weren’t they offered a peace deal a couple of years ago but Boris Johnson told them to fight on as he needed the photoshoots in camouflage for his image.

Shame that ordinary people’s lives are less important than the egos of the various political leaders involved. None of them or their family will be fighting and dying

 

[emanymton]

The way the pro-war posters on here call those of us who oppose a brutal imperialist invasion pro-war has a real "who are the real Nazis" vibe to it, doesn't it?

And that level of a complete divorce from reality lets me think that they are teetering on the edge of going full on right wing conspiracy loon, and I suspect some of them are much further down that rabbit hole than they let on here.

 

[Rimbaud]

Maybe I’m a moral imbecile then as I just want the war to stop. Rather be that than the sadistic sort like yourself celebrating people dying. Got any shares in the reconstruction?

Under what conditions do you see the war stopping? If Ukraine gave up their claim to the territory currently occupied by Russia, what guarantee would they have that Russia won't just have another go at rump Ukraine after having a few years to rearm and recuperate?

It seems to be that an end to the conflict on those terms would necessarily have to mean either more NATO expansion and more arming of Ukraine in order to provide a security guarantee. The only alternative end is for a country of 40 million to be conquered and subjugated by a neo-fascist imperialist power. Unless there is some scenario you have in mind?