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Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

mojo pixy said:
I don't want a row (lol), but I have to ask,

Didn't you vote Leave? Were you being manipulated there, did you buy Putin's nonsense? Or do only other people do that?

Apologies btw, this isn't beef. If anything I broadly agree with what you wrote, and this is just a wry smile at chickens coming home to roost. Or something.
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Whoever ran the troll farms that pushed to divide the West with Brexit and Trump must surely be enjoying their retirement in luxury now
 
Actually i found Putins nonsense quite enlightening...That he did get what Lenin and Stalin had done..Soviet Union was put together as a Union of Soviets in a way this man from St Petersburgs would never have...

Imagine God forbid..UK breaks up and some Manc English rises from its ashes trying to reassert England's place in the world with no understanding of what the Welsh Assembly and Scottish Parliament were about, sat in Westminster , trying to justify what he was doing with talk of King Aurthur and Richard III or Cromwell..
 
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gosub said:
Actually i found Putins nonsense quite enlightening...That he did get what Lenin and Stalin had done..Soviet Union was put together as a collection of Soviets in a way this man from St Petersburgs would never have...
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It’s a waste of time watching it, all you have to do is read this thread.
 
teqniq said:
No I do not know for sure one way or another who actually destroyed it and the article does not claim to know for sure either
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Germany are sure who did it, and some time ago, Sweden's investigation just adds to it...the case is closed

The bigger question....presumably as winter thaws Ruusia will increasingly have an advantage over a lesser armed Ukraine. The big question seems to be will Russia try and advance or are they content to consolidate what they've got. Of course I've got no military intelligence but based purely on guesswork I would expect them to consolidate the territory they've claimed rather than keep pushing on. Has anyone heard any speculation?
 
gosub said:
Actually i found Putins nonsense quite enlightening...That he did get what Lenin and Stalin had done..Soviet Union was put together as a Union of Soviets in a way this man from St Petersburgs would never have...
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Except that the Soviet Union was one great massive pretence. No devolved decision making of any significance whatsoever. Nothing on anything like the scale of Welsh and Scottish devolution. If Yeltsin hadn't come to power the USSR might never have broken up. So if you're going to blame anyone (from a Russian nationalist perspective), blame Yeltsin.
 
Kevbad the Bad said:
Except that the Soviet Union was one great massive pretence. No devolved decision making of any significance whatsoever. Nothing on anything like the scale of Welsh and Scottish devolution. If Yeltsin hadn't come to power the USSR might never have broken up. So if you're going to blame anyone (from a Russian nationalist perspective), blame Yeltsin.
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Russians blame Gorbachev
 
gosub said:
Russians blame Gorbachev
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We can all blame whoever we like. As they're all dead they can't get back at us. Gorbachev had no intention of letting the USSR break up. Yeltsin on the other hand seemed to have swallowed the fiction of a union of Soviets. Plus he was probably pissed at the time.
 
redsquirrel said:
Is highlighting the fact that the former CinC of the Ukrainian armed forces is willing to hobnob with fascists "buying Putin's nonsense"?

For anyone who is a serious anti-fascist of course the elements of Ukrainian fascism in/linked to the military and politics are a worry and concern, they should be.
The fact that the Russian invasion has killed thousands, and that there are significant far-right elements present and involved with the Russian military should not lead to wilful blindness of the presence of far right elements in Ukraine.
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Nor should the contrary apply. There are those all over Xitter, and on this thread, who would have us believe, with lots of "Look! Over there! Nazis!!", that this is all about Ukrainians on the far right. I don't think anybody's pretending that such a thing doesn't exist, but it does seem very conveniently to gloss over the far more oppressive and authoritarian actions of Russia, both civilly and militarily.
 
existentialist said:
Nor should the contrary apply. There are those all over Xitter, and on this thread, who would have us believe, with lots of "Look! Over there! Nazis!!", that this is all about Ukrainians on the far right. I don't think anybody's pretending that such a thing doesn't exist, but it does seem very conveniently to gloss over the far more oppressive and authoritarian actions of Russia, both civilly and militarily.
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I don't think that's what 39th was doing.
 
Dystopiary said:
I don't think that's what 39th was doing.
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I'm not pointing the finger directly at 39th, more the general tendency amongst those who bang on about Ukrainian Nazis to develop a significant blind spot when it comes to the far greater, and far more destructive, far-right tendencies in Russia.
 
existentialist said:
I'm not pointing the finger directly at 39th, more the general tendency amongst those who bang on about Ukrainian Nazis to develop a significant blind spot when it comes to the far greater, and far more destructive, far-right tendencies in Russia.
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Taken as a given and Russia is not being funded by my taxes
 
gosub said:
Stalin certainly didn't see it as the Russian empire...how could he?
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that's a very very ignorant position which can only be held by someone who knows fuck all about the great helmsman and who's never noticed how stalin used ww2 to regain large tracts of land which had been formerly part of the tsarist empire - did you really never notice how interwar poland was somewhat to the east of post-1945 poland? how the baltic states, again part of the russian empire, were incorporated into the ussr after their brief independence? he may not have described the ussr and its retaking of formerly tsarist territory as the russian empire. but it is plain that he wished to control the same lands that nicholas ii and his forebears had ruled before 1917
 
existentialist said:
Nor should the contrary apply. There are those all over Xitter, and on this thread, who would have us believe, with lots of "Look! Over there! Nazis!!", that this is all about Ukrainians on the far right. I don't think anybody's pretending that such a thing doesn't exist, but it does seem very conveniently to gloss over the far more oppressive and authoritarian actions of Russia, both civilly and militarily.
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It would be less disingenuous if some of those who drop Ukrainian news stories about The Bad Ukrainians once a week and look eagerly around saying how right they are commented or posted about the nasty shit Russia gets up to daily.
 
ska invita said:
Germany are sure who did it, and some time ago, Sweden's investigation just adds to it...the case is closed

The bigger question....presumably as winter thaws Ruusia will increasingly have an advantage over a lesser armed Ukraine. The big question seems to be will Russia try and advance or are they content to consolidate what they've got. Of course I've got no military intelligence but based purely on guesswork I would expect them to consolidate the territory they've claimed rather than keep pushing on. Has anyone heard any speculation?
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speculation i have heard is russia will take kharkiv, possibly odesa and the black sea coast and maybe everything east of the dnieper.
 
existentialist said:
Nor should the contrary apply. There are those all over Xitter, and on this thread, who would have us believe, with lots of "Look! Over there! Nazis!!", that this is all about Ukrainians on the far right. I don't think anybody's pretending that such a thing doesn't exist, but it does seem very conveniently to gloss over the far more oppressive and authoritarian actions of Russia, both civilly and militarily.
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The nationalist and fascist forces present within Russia are not being glossed over by the UK state and capital, quite the opposite.
In contrast the presence/importance of nationalist/far right elements in Ukraine has been glossed over/minimised/denied by the main political parties, media organisations, capital etc of the UK, including 'centre left' political groups/individuals. Groups that are arguing for an expansion of NATO, more arms to Ukraine, a strong anti-Russian (and Chinese) foreign policy while providing a blind eye to the nationalist elements present in Ukraine.

The NAFO crowd is chock full of conservatives, nationalists and the ilk who are happy to minimise the activities of fascists (many have been doing so for years), You shared a twitter post with a video of a known Neo-conservative because it was pro-Ukraine.

Certainly the activities of fascists and nationalist elements in Russia should not be ignored, and it isn't, but the same applies to Ukraine (and anywhere else). Also there is a balance of forces in Ukraine at the moment - more liberal tendencies alongside more nationalist ones (as well as limited class struggle forces) -anti-fascists can use the leverage they have to assist in class struggle.
 
Artaxerxes said:
It would be less disingenuous if some of those who drop Ukrainian news stories about The Bad Ukrainians once a week and look eagerly around saying how right they are commented or posted about the nasty shit Russia gets up to daily.
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That is precisely - and arguably more eloquently - the point I was attempting to make.
 
Russia meanwhile is putting Estonia's PM on a wanted list.


Russia has put Estonia’s Prime Minister Kaja Kallas on a wanted list, the first time the Kremlin has sought criminal charges against a foreign leader nearly two years since Moscow’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine

Kallas is listed as wanted in the Russian interior ministry’s database of suspects, independent news site Mediazona reported on Tuesday, alongside other Baltic politicians critical of the Kremlin and its war, including Lithuania’s culture minister and dozens of lawmakers in Latvia.

The ministry did not say what Kallas had been charged with, but the move comes after a senior Russian law enforcement official ordered investigations of Estonia’s plan to remove a monument involving a Soviet tank last year.

“These people are responsible for decisions to essentially mock historical memory. And these people are taking hostile acts towards hostile acts in our country,” Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov told reporters on Tuesday.
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