Ukraine and the Russian invasion, 2022-24

[kebabking]

the archers at Crecy were not artillery, at all

Effects at range. Sounds like artillery to me...

 

[Humberto]

The Western establishment (Sir Jimmy Savile?) to sort this? They've done nothing. A pathetic lot

 

[a_chap]

the archers at Crecy were not artillery, at all

I thought the Archers were in Ambridge.

 

[The39thStep]

I thought the Archers were in Ambridge.

I liked Sugar Sugar but haven't heard any of their other stuff.

 

[krtek a houby]

the americans have done, time and again, 1, probably 2, certainly 3 and haven't yet had the opportunity for four and five. so let's not hold this up as the russians are uniquely vicious or nasty, people our government cuddles up to would do and have done much the same

For sure.

Reckon an occupation will see some form of resistance possibly like the IRA.

 

[krtek a houby]

Yea these weapon dumps are a primary stated target and because UKR has the air defense of a tortoise lying on its back in the sun they are hiding them in places where civilians might be hit.

They should just surrender, really, shouldn't they?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Yea these weapon dumps are a primary stated target and because UKR has the air defense of a tortoise lying on its back in the sun they are hiding them in places where civilians might be hit.

Jesus christ

 

[gosub]

the archers at Crecy were not artillery, at all

Longbow was closer to artillery than crossbow was/is

 

[krtek a houby]

Jesus christ

What is it with droids these days?

 

[JimW]

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred.

The boy stood on the burning deck,
His pockets full of crackers...

 

[gosub]

Cannon to right of them,
Cannon to left of them,
Cannon in front of them
Volley'd and thunder'd;
Storm'd at with shot and shell,
Boldly they rode and well,
Into the jaws of Death,
Into the mouth of hell
Rode the six hundred.

Think this Crimea is more cest la guere mais c"est pas magnifique

 

[Chz]

Longbow was closer to artillery than crossbow was/is

TBF, longbows were generally used at a much closer range than people tend to assume. At maximum range, a longbow struggles to even penetrate a linen gambeson and there is no point in wasting shafts and - more importantly - the stamina of your archers at such a range. Most shots would be fired at sub-100m ranges. The longbow does have a greater range than the crossbow, but most of that range is useless against a target with even nominal (eg: cloth) armour.

 

[agricola]

Effects at range. Sounds like artillery to me...

not really, unless rifles, javelins, slings and muskets are artillery

 

[Pickman's model]

not really, unless rifles, javelins, slings and muskets are artillery

Blowpipes, peashooters...

 

[JimW]

Originally any engine for discharging missiles (catapults, slings, bows, etc.); modern restriction to "ordnance, large guns" is from 16c. Technically, "all firearms discharged from carriages," as opposed to small arms, discharged by hand.

It says here: artillery | Etymology, origin and meaning of artillery by etymonline

 

[existentialist]

the archers at Crecy were not artillery, at all

TBH, I think these hairsplitting distinctions are rather irrelevant to the points kebabking made in his excellent post.

 

[bluescreen]

TBH, I think these hairsplitting distinctions are rather irrelevant to the points kebabking made in his excellent post.

Irrelevant hairsplitting distinctions on urban?

 

[Pickman's model]

TBH, I think these hairsplitting distinctions are rather irrelevant to the points kebabking made in his excellent post.

Look upon our pedants ye mighty and despair

 

[Raheem]

Irrelevant hairsplitting distinctions on urban?

Think you missed a comma.

 

[David Clapson]

it will probably work in (eventually) massively degrading the Ru Armys main combat arm.

What do you expect the Russians to do after that?

 

[bluescreen]

Think you missed a comma.

Some hairsplitting distinctions are relevant, so that adjective and noun combo can be regarded as a single unit where no comma is needed for an adjective qualifying the unit. (Cf. a pedantic urban spaceman.)

 

[kebabking]

What do you expect the Russians to do after that?

A combination of piling more and more resources into Ukraine, a proportion of which will be scraping the barrel, 'popping smoke and declaring victory', and lashing out.

They, imv, do have the raw combat power to take Ukraine east of the Dneipner. However, it would mean stripping the entire Russian military of armour, artillery, and infantry, and combat aircraft, from Vladivostok to Murmansk, and the likelihood of taking material and personnel losses that Russia might take 10 years to recover from.

The question, which I simply don't - and won't pretend to - know the answer to, is whether Putin, and the wider power structures, is prepared to take the gamble of committing that force, and accepting the risk of having a seriously degraded military for the next decade, while the vultures circle....

 

[Pickman's model]

A combination of piling more and more resources into Ukraine, a proportion of which will be scraping the barrel, 'popping smoke and declaring victory', and lashing out.

They, imv, do have the raw combat power to take Ukraine east of the Dneipner. However, it would mean stripping the entire Russian military of armour, artillery, and infantry, and combat aircraft, from Vladivostok to Murmansk, and the likelihood of taking material and personnel losses that Russia might take 10 years to recover from.

The question, which I simply don't - and won't pretend to - know the answer to, is whether Putin, and the wider power structures, is prepared to take the gamble of committing that force, and accepting the risk of having a seriously degraded military for the next decade, while the vultures circle....

Are you including here all the troops of the other ministries?

 

[kebabking]

Are you including here all the troops of the other ministries?

To an extent.

They've certainly shown their willingness to throw all the disperate formations into the battle - many of which were there at the start, which shows they were part of the original plan, not desperation - but in the end I think they will be more willing to throw the Army into the battle down to the last man than they will the internal security troops.

In the end, the security of the regime is what matters, that however bad it gets in Ukraine they will hold onto a greater proportion of those who directly enforce the state's control than they will the Army - not least, i think, because the post-soviet state hasn't completely moved away from the distrust of the military that's a hang over from the Soviet Union...

 

[A380]

not really, unless rifles, javelins, slings and muskets are artillery

The Honourable Artillery Company says they are, And they are all millionaires so who are we to argue...

(And apparently they have their own detachment of specials in City of London as well.)

 

[kebabking]

The Honourable Artillery company says they are, And they are all millionaires so who are we to argue...

(And apparently they have their own detachment of specials in City of London as well.)

I took a detachment from HAC on my last Afghan tour. They were very good soldiers, I liked them enormously.

 

[A380]

I took a detachment from HAC on my last Afghan tour. They were very good soldiers, I liked them enormously.

Were they really all millionaires?

 

[existentialist]

Were they really all millionaires?

Not after kebabking played poker with them.

 

[two sheds]

billionaires after that were they

 

[kebabking]

Were they really all millionaires?

Sadly not - some were city types and loaded to fuck, but they had the normal mix - a teacher, a stay-at-home mum (maybe those two hated kids?), a woman who was a regional manager for Next.

Regimental functions are a spectacle to behold though, they invited me and the family to a weekend when we got back. It was epic...