UK music industry, bands, work permits and Brexit

[Mr.Bishie]

£500 for nurses in 8 years is 1% a year eg. less than inflation and a pay DROP.

Why didn't you say that in the first place then?!

Give me strength.

 

[Pickman's model]

Why didn't you say that in the first place then?!

Give me strength.

That is supposed to be what genius looks like

In the fornicator's mind anyway

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You fool! My point is really not complicated; £500 for nurses in 8 years is 1% a year eg. less than inflation and a pay DROP.

How can people be so thick as they are here?

Hmmm. Quibbling, the figure is closer to £2k for a newly qualified nurse. More than that higher up the pay grades. Probably better to double check your answers before calling other people thick.

It still represents a cut in real terms of course, as has happened to millions of people over this period, public and private sector. And as has happened in sectors not usually noted for employing new immigrants to the country, such as the police force. This is of course what 'austerity' really means - the many must get poorer so that the few can continue to get richer. Nothing to do with immigration levels - an ideological response to a crisis in capitalism, whereby some form of discipline and punishment is produced for the masses to keep the profits rolling in. A response carried out, of course, by the very people who are today sitting down to decide how to do brexit.

A few facts and figures about some pay changes since 2010.

 

[D'wards]

I don't know what's been said so far int thread, but anything that cunt Geldof says automatically leads me to take agin it, cos it's that cunt Geldof.

So when I agree with him on a point it pains me

 

[pesh]

I’m not really sure what to think, I do think Geldof is a cunt of the highest order, but I also genuinely don’t know how I’m going to pay the rent if all my touring work dries up overnight.

 

[billbond]

More fear tactics from the remainers and the gobshite multi millionaires like Geldof
when will it end, another march that will achieve nothing

 

[editor]

More fear tactics from the remainers and the gobshite multi millionaires like Geldof
when will it end, another march that will achieve nothing

If you take away free movement of UK musicians/artists/workers in Europe - and I believe that is a stated aim of the Tories - then it's not 'fear tactics' - it will be the new reality.

 

[andysays]

If you take away free movement of UK musicians/artists/workers in Europe - and I believe that is a stated aim of the Tories - then it's not 'fear tactics' - it will be the new reality.

Out of interest, where have the Tories stated that one of their aims for Brexit is to 'take away free movement of UK musicians/artists/workers in Europe'?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Out of interest, where have the Tories stated that one of their aims for Brexit is to 'take away free movement of UK musicians/artists/workers in Europe'?

It their stated aim to withdraw from the single market and the customs union, and to restrict access of people from the EU to the UK for work (treating them like anyone else from outside the EU, I believe is the latest line).

You don't get to restrict access to the UK without the places you're restricting imposing equivalent restrictions. That's how this shit works.

 

[andysays]

It their stated aim to withdraw from the single market and the customs union, and to restrict access of people from the EU to the UK for work (treating them like anyone else from outside the EU, I believe is the latest line).

You don't get to restrict access to the UK without the places you're restricting imposing equivalent restrictions. That's how this shit works.

A consequence (and I agree 100% that it's a likely consequence) is not the same as a stated aim.

Since it's claimed as a stated aim, I was wondering where and when it was stated.

 

[killer b]

jesus christ Andy.

 

[Pickman's model]

Out of interest, where have the Tories stated that one of their aims for Brexit is to 'take away free movement of UK musicians/artists/workers in Europe'?

As soon as they found out 73.8% of musicians vote Labour or Green they started discussing it, it's all out there on the web

 

[brogdale]

As soon as they found out 73.8% of musicians vote Labour or Green they started discussing it, it's all out there on the web

I’ve seen 73.6%, but I don’t recognise the figures you’re using.

 

[ska invita]

I’m not really sure what to think, I do think Geldof is a cunt of the highest order, but I also genuinely don’t know how I’m going to pay the rent if all my touring work dries up overnight.

As you said last time we did this thread, if each country needs a separate work visa it will stop particularly crews from traveling, never mind musicians.. Musicians Union are running a campaign on this issue, but from what I've seen of it it doesn't mention crews as crews aren't part of the MU. I would expect crews to be most affected.

 

[Kaka Tim]

A consequence (and I agree 100% that it's a likely consequence) is not the same as a stated aim.

Since it's claimed as a stated aim, I was wondering where and when it was stated.

cos ending free movement was pretty obviously something that cuts both ways?

 

[8ball]

cos ending free movement was pretty obviously something that cuts both ways?

That wasn't on the bus!!!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

A consequence (and I agree 100% that it's a likely consequence) is not the same as a stated aim.

Since it's claimed as a stated aim, I was wondering where and when it was stated.

Likely ? No not likely. Inevitable. Part of what is being proposed, in fact. We propose treating people from those countries like X in this country means we propose people from this country being treated like X in those countries.

Really, this is basic stuff.

When I ate all the pie, it wasn't my intention that nobody else should have any pie. My only intention was to eat all the pie.

 

[Pickman's model]

That wasn't on the bus!!!

It was. It was on the bottom of the bus

 

[editor]

A worrying article, backing up my earlier concerns:

The Incorporated Society of Musicians (ISM) issued the warning on the launch of its campaign, Save Music, which is calling on ministers to ensure freedom of movement for musicians post-Brexit.

It argues that touring artists should be treated differently, in the new immigration system. If complete freedom of movement cannot be secured for them in the Brexit negotiations, the campaign is calling for the introduction of two-year working visas for musicians to allow them to tour in Europe. Without these measures, the group warns there will be a severe impact on the music industry.

The ability for Britons to travel freely through the EU is in doubt with no agreement in place for working or travel visas within the EU post-Brexit.

Deborah Annetts, chief executive of the ISM, said: “For decades our musicians have had the right to travel freely across the EU, performing their music in numerous different countries to countless audiences.

“For many musicians this has been of immense value in creating music, establishing their careers and keeping a roof over their heads.”

She added: “The ability to travel freely lies at the heart of creating music – music is universal and knows no boundaries. The very best music often comes from musicians from all walks of life coming together to collaborate.

“The House of Lords EU Select Committee report, published in July 2018, recognised the importance of freedom of movement for musicians and recommended a multi-entry visa enabling creatives, including musicians, to continue to work freely across the EU post-Brexit. We along with many other music organisations believe that a two-year visa is what is needed.”

Annetts warned ministers plans to extend the Permitted Paid Engagement (PPE) visa, which allows entry into the country if you are invited by a UK organisation, could see a repeat of the issues performers had at WOMAD earlier this year.

Musicians could be stopped from touring Europe if no visa deal agreed, warn group

 

[skyscraper101]

A worrying article, backing up my earlier concerns:



Musicians could be stopped from touring Europe if no visa deal agreed, warn group

It's hard enough getting artist visas for non-EU musicians to play here right now. Womad suffers particularly from this. I can only imagine the clusterfuck to come from our soon to be non-EU status in Europe.

 

[editor]

Another letter from musicians worried about Brexit
Top stars and music industry leaders come together to trash Brexit deal

 

[andysays]

Another letter from musicians worried about Brexit
Top stars and music industry leaders come together to trash Brexit deal

It's not really 'musicians' though is it, it's 'top stars and music industry leaders'.

Would you present the views of such people as being worth of uncritical support whatever they were saying, or is it just because you happen to agree with them on this particular issue?

 

[Baronage-Phase]

Another letter from musicians worried about Brexit
Top stars and music industry leaders come together to trash Brexit deal

Oh I hope they bring out a single for Christmas on this.
Something along the lines of
"Do they know it's calamitous"

 

[editor]

It's not really 'musicians' though is it, it's 'top stars and music industry leaders'.

Would you present the views of such people as being worth of uncritical support whatever they were saying, or is it just because you happen to agree with them on this particular issue?

Or perhaps it's entirely relevant to thread that's about musicians commenting on Brexit?

And yes, I do think Annie Lennox is a musician, you snob, and at no point have I offered my "uncritical support" FFS.

 

[Riklet]

Who cares what they think. Why are they any more special/important/interesting than any other group of people blabbing on about it this week.

Sir Geldof clearly didn't learn his oar-related lesson when boating last time.

 

[editor]

Who cares what they think. Why are they any more special/important/interesting than any other group of people blabbing on about it this week.

I'd say that people whose livelihoods may be directly effected by Brexit have every right to speak out about it. Why do you want to dismiss their concerns out of hand? How would you like it if people said that same to you if you were worried about your work?

 

[andysays]

Or perhaps it's entirely relevant to thread that's about musicians commenting on Brexit?

And yes, I do think Annie Lennox is a musician, you snob, and at no point have I offered my "uncritical support" FFS.

You've posted an article without comment, ie uncritically, an article which puts forward the views of top stars and music industry leaders (it's in the headline).

I'm not suggesting that Annie Lennox isn't a musician, but she isn't a typical musician, she's a star, and I see no more reason for you to take her position or those of other music industry high-ups as yours than for me to take uncritically the position of Alan Titchmarsh or the leader of Hackney Council as mine just because of my job as a council gardener.

 

[editor]

You've posted an article without comment, ie uncritically, an article which puts forward the views of top stars and music industry leaders (it's in the headline).

I'm not suggesting that Annie Lennox isn't a musician, but she isn't a typical musician, she's a star, and I see no more reason for you to take her position or those of other music industry high-ups as yours than for me to take uncritically the position of Alan Titchmarsh or the leader of Hackney Council as mine just because of my job as a council gardener.

I didn't realise that the failure to deliver an in-depth critique of any relevant link posted in a thread here adds up to a ringing endorsement of the entire content of the article.

 

[andysays]

I didn't realise that the failure to deliver an in-depth critique of any relevant link posted in a thread here adds up to a ringing endorsement of the entire content of the article.

Normally when someone posts up an article without comment, you (rightly) suggest they should explain why they think it's worthy of our attention, maybe even contribute their own thoughts.

I don't see why just because the article is about what Paloma Faith and Ed Sheeran's manager think, that principle goes out the window.

 

[editor]

Normally when someone posts up an article without comment, you (rightly) suggest they should explain why they think it's worthy of our attention, maybe even contribute their own thoughts.

And that's EXACTLY what I did, prefacing the link with the explanatory words, "Another letter from musicians worried about Brexit."

So the post was on topic, relevant, fully explained and clearly adding something useful to the debate.

I've really no idea why you're being such an arse here, tbh.