Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

UK music industry, bands, work permits and Brexit

Just to add further detail to that earlier post - and in NO WAY endorsing or offering uncritical support for every element of their argument - this site has the names of loads more people who have signed up to the letter expressing concerns about Brexit and the music industry. That said, as a musician that regularly tours Europe, I am very concerned that things may go back to how they were before bands could freely move around Europe if we do leave.

The UK Music Industry unites with letter to MPs and the Prime Minister to call for an alternative to Brexit, @music4eu
 
Still a clusterfuck ahoy

No-deal Brexit on 31 October could make life "very difficult" for the UK music industry says the BPI.

The organisation, which represents UK record companies - including Warner, Sony and Universal - believes copyright laws might be "thrown in the air."

They say "chaos" could ensue for British artists touring in Europe too.

"Planning for a whole range of possibilities which we are not sure will ever materialise is extremely difficult," says the BPI's Ian Moss.
At the most basic level, Brexit raises concerns about the ability of musicians to tour overseas. And unless you're The Rolling Stones or Beyonce, touring teams don't come much bigger or work more often than orchestras.

Classical musicians agree no-deal could mean uncertainty over work permits, delays at European borders and complications with moving instruments across the continent.

"The nice and simple crossing at Calais, with 100 musicians and no obstacles," could instantly become a thing of the past by Halloween, says Mark Pemberton, director of the Association of British Orchestras.

Orchestral manoeuvres in the dark
"We've got orchestras that are going on tour in November who do not know what the work permit restrictions and extra costs are going to be in, say, France or Germany. In terms of their preparation, there are some very big unanswered questions."

Even if work permits are granted, he believes European concert halls may look elsewhere as "there's only so much they're prepared to spend on booking an orchestra".

"If we become more expensive [extra costs-wise] than a German or Italian orchestra then guess what? We're going to lose the work."

"The saving grace for us, ironically," he laughs sardonically, "is the is the weak pound, because we're all now cheaper! [performance fee-wise]"
No-deal poses 'big unanswered questions' for music

* Bonus points to writer for 'Orchestral manoeuvres in the dark' reference. :)

(Oh and title edited so it's not all about fucking Geldof)
 
David Knopfler nails it:

I will say this one last bloody time to have it on record for the next person who clearly doesn’t care to understand why UK musicians are sensibly 98% in favour of Remain and not Brexit and will continue to be so until Hell freezes over.

If I am offered work as a musician, it makes very little difference to me in practical terms whether it’s a one hour plane ride to anywhere in the UK or anywhere in the EU. I jump on a plane and go to work. The local Agent has some paperwork to take care of but the only difference to me personally is usually the eight seconds it takes me to show my fabulous, much beloved, and massively appreciated, blue zone European passport if passing into another EU country that these populist, reactionary, moronic, shitheads want to deprive me of. Even that little effort isn’t necessary at all within the Schengen Zone.

If however I want to play in the US it’s a completely different ball of wax. I have to prove to the US authorities that I am an “exceptional” talent, or whatever worrisome phrase it is they use, fill in lengthy forms online, attend an interview at the US Embassy in London at 7.30am to plead my case along with my band - ie an overnight stay at a London Hotel, handing over a shedload of serous money for a visa for myself and another shedload for whoever I require to accompany me - and then do it all again for the next trip where any change in line up btw would probably scupper the enterprise.

To say that this is a royal pain in the arse doesn’t begin to describe it. Oh, and for bands with gear, and worse merchandise, the difficulties compound. Imagine having to pay customs and excise on your CDs at every border and boundary as you arrive at them? Or have to create authorised expensive carnets of your equipment that can then be challenged at every border by customs and immigration officials. It becomes effectively impossible to tour Europe on an economic time scale and to carry CDs in your van. If playing in the US were as easy as Europe I’d have been doing regular shows there every few months for the last twenty years.

I stopped flying to the US by flying into Toronto to get to Upstate NY because there was usually a two hour queue to get across the border and a one hour delay being interviewed by US immigration officials at the border. It was less work to fly through Boston and get it all done at the airport with a 30 min queue. To imagine these kinds of difficulties and costs translated to working in Europe would mean, for 80% of gigging musicians, the difference between making a living and not making a living.

This is also where our tax authorities pick up huge wodges of cash as invisible earnings from all of our businesses that currently enjoy freedom of movement. Hundreds and hundreds of plane loads of us going in and out of the other 27 countries hourly... all being bollocked by Faragist, xenophobic, little Englander, reactionary, dogma.

These revenues will be drastically hit if and when, as these insensitive, unapologetic, pro-government, sphincters intend, it all comes to a crashing end on October 31st 2019. It was an idiotic gamble David Cameron made to nobble his ERG supporters and he lost (!) and as a result we are getting the short shitty stick and I’m mad as hell about that and will absolutely remain mad as hell until this assault on my human rights and my economic well being ends and leaving the European Union is trashed.

It can’t come a day too soon for me so please don’t dish out any of the slack litany of cobblers leave voters have been taught to parrot about this. I hope this is clear enough and is the last time I need to spell this lunacy out. All that before even considering yellow hammer or driving permits and whatever other needless fuckeries this will throw up just because Johnson wanted Cameron’s job, the utterly shameless, lying knob.
 
And it will make it much, much harder for small bands on independent labels to ply their trade outside of the UK.

Sorry to comment on a year-old post, but there's the other way too - think about niche festivals (e.g. Infest and Resistanz*) where the vast majority of the bands come from the EU, it'll be hugely problematic both ways. OTOH, I'm all for anything that makes it harder for Morrissey to reenter the country…;)

*Industrial and EBM fests (not my kinda thing - at least not anymore, was heavily into it about 10 years or so ago).
 
Bollocks.

Pretty much 'leave' voter I've discussed Brexit with knew and understood that the loss of the Single Market would make selling and buying harder and more expensive - they just either didn't care, or cared more about other things.

Bull-fucking-shit they did (Brexiters don't have the first fucking clue about anything, they just parrot what Nigel tells them to). I have never come across a leaver with the first clue about the SM (and I'm in a family with a dozen of 'em!).
 
You're changing your argument here. First you said that most leave voters knew brexit would be bad for business. I see no evidence of that at all. Many no doubt didn't give much of a stuff either way, but there's no evidence that large numbers of people actively disbelieved those campaigning for brexit who proclaimed a brave new world of opportunity but voted for brexit anyway. Two plus years of constant banging on about immigration, from all sides at various points, took their toll. Propaganda does work.

Many people vote in really stupid ways, btw, for really fucking stupid reasons. Always have. How the fuck do you think the tories keep getting in? Boris Cunt Johnson was voted in as mayor of London. I wouldn't reify some kind of wisdom of the vote.

The ballot paper simply read "Should the UK leave the EU?" that was it, said nowt about the ramifications of doing so. Who was it who said that "the referendum is the tool of despots and dictators"…? The people who voted for Brexit believe what was written on the side of a fucking BUS, for fuck's sake!

This reminds me of the trial in Alice In Wonderland when the Knave of Hearts was on trial for painting the roses "Sentence first, verdict later".
 
No, he’s right. It’s a majority of 52% of the population. Specifically, it’s 52% of 52% of the population.

If the 48% of the population who didn’t vote split differently to the 52% who did, though, I’ve not seen any evidence of it. And many would argue it is irrelevant anyway, since they didn’t care enough to take a position.

Eh…? You're not making any fucking sense. 52% of the population DID NOT vote leave, any more than 48% of the population voted remain. You are conflating 'population' with 'electorate', which is exactly what Farage has done - and is still doing.

According to the ONS (Office for National Statistics) (for population and electorate figures, rest of the figures mine):

Population of the UK: around 66m
Size of electorate: around 45m (or roughly ⅔ population)
Percentage of electorate who voted in referendum (turnout): around 73% (or 32.5m)
Percentage who voted as a percentage of total population: about 50%
Percentage of total electorate who voted leave: 38.7%
Percentage of total electorate who voted remain: 35.8%
Percentage of population who voted leave: 26.4%
Percentage of population who voted remain: 24.4%
Therefore, 73.6% of the population did NOT vote to leave the EU.

Apologies if my maths is wrong, or this doesn't make any fucking sense, I'm shite at maths at the best of times - and it's only 09:33 and I'm out of coffee!
 
But yeah, there were people who
voted Brexit on v. principled lefty grounds.
What they thought was really going to fucking happen was anyone’s guess, frankly.

And if all 12 of you voted the other way, or didn’t turn out, the result would not be different.

I was never a fan of the big business club either, but the “my enemy’s enemy” principle wasn’t a goer this time.

Are you sure your tag line isn't supposed to read "resident right whinger", 8B…? :D;)FWIW, I agree with you.
 
Inappropriate Content
This thread is part up an upswelling of moaning by the remainers. Happening all around.

You're a bit reliant on the NHS at the moment, aren't you TC…? Could you afford to pay for health insurance like they have to in America, where healthcare is run as a for-profit enterprise and doctors are millionaires…? Are you aware how much your medicines cost (and I'm not talking about the prescription charge, presuming you pay it). What other treatment you having - chemo…? Radiotherapy…? The isotopes used for radiotherapy are shipped over here from the Netherlands on an 'as needed' basis, because we don't have anywhere to store them - just imagine what would happen if they were to be held up at Calais and Dover. Speaking of the Netherlands, the HQ of the EMA (European Medicines Agency) has just relocated to Amsterdam (in March this year) it was in London. Are you aware of what the EMA is, what its role is…? Here, read this: Who we are | European Medicines Agency (saves me having to explain it, which I'm not sure I can do right now).

Lexiters: Want to leave the EU, because they think it's capitalist, but leaving the EU would destroy the NHS (which is very obviously socialist (well, socio-democratic) meaning a return to having to have health insurance as they do in the US, where healthcare is a for-profit enterprise (i.e. capitalist) and many doctors are multimillionaires. There aren't enough :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: I can give to such brilliant reasoning! :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
 
You're a bit reliant on the NHS at the moment, aren't you TC…? Could you afford to pay for health insurance like they have to in America, where healthcare is run as a for-profit enterprise and doctors are millionaires…? Are you aware how much your medicines cost (and I'm not talking about the prescription charge, presuming you pay it). What other treatment you having - chemo…? Radiotherapy…? The isotopes used for radiotherapy are shipped over here from the Netherlands on an 'as needed' basis, because we don't have anywhere to store them - just imagine what would happen if they were to be held up at Calais and Dover. Speaking of the Netherlands, the HQ of the EMA (European Medicines Agency) has just relocated to Amsterdam (in March this year) it was in London. Are you aware of what the EMA is, what its role is…? Here, read this: Who we are | European Medicines Agency (saves me having to explain it, which I'm not sure I can do right now).

Lexiters: Want to leave the EU, because they think it's capitalist, but leaving the EU would destroy the NHS (which is very obviously socialist (well, socio-democratic) meaning a return to having to have health insurance as they do in the US, where healthcare is a for-profit enterprise (i.e. capitalist) and many doctors are multimillionaires. There aren't enough :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: I can give to such brilliant reasoning! :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
Dunno if you know this but the NHS predates the EU while the rest of europe operates on an insurance model. Just fyi.
 
You're a bit reliant on the NHS at the moment, aren't you TC…? Could you afford to pay for health insurance like they have to in America, where healthcare is run as a for-profit enterprise and doctors are millionaires…? Are you aware how much your medicines cost (and I'm not talking about the prescription charge, presuming you pay it). What other treatment you having - chemo…? Radiotherapy…? The isotopes used for radiotherapy are shipped over here from the Netherlands on an 'as needed' basis, because we don't have anywhere to store them - just imagine what would happen if they were to be held up at Calais and Dover. Speaking of the Netherlands, the HQ of the EMA (European Medicines Agency) has just relocated to Amsterdam (in March this year) it was in London. Are you aware of what the EMA is, what its role is…? Here, read this: Who we are | European Medicines Agency (saves me having to explain it, which I'm not sure I can do right now).

Lexiters: Want to leave the EU, because they think it's capitalist, but leaving the EU would destroy the NHS (which is very obviously socialist (well, socio-democratic) meaning a return to having to have health insurance as they do in the US, where healthcare is a for-profit enterprise (i.e. capitalist) and many doctors are multimillionaires. There aren't enough :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: I can give to such brilliant reasoning! :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
I don't know why you're using someone's health information to try to score points in an argument, but it's not a nice thing to do. The EMA is more connected to the UK Medicines and Health Regulatory Agency (MHRA) than the NHS in any case.
 
And, Gaia, your post about why radioisotope products are shipped from overseas was inaccurate. They're shipped in from Europe because there are no research reactors to make them in the UK, and different ones come from different countries. They are not stockpiled as they can't be, they decay too quickly.

There is a detailed report on radioisotope supply made for the UK government, and which is available via Google.
 
I'm not quoting, there are too many smilies.

Gaia there's a convension here that things people have disclosed about their personal life, travailes, difficult times they're going through are not fair game to bring up in an argument. You're out of order in doing that.

Brexit is an utter cluster fuck. The damage a no deal may well wraught, to willingly accept that, for what. However, I perfectly understand why many voted out for reasons I respect. I have no argument with these people. FWIW again, I spoiled my vote because the question was a travesty and I couldn't line up with either of the mainstream arguments as presented. TO either give the EU my seal of approval.Carry on lads. Or to fall in with the nationalists, biggots. (These mainstream arguments.)

But look at the fucking state of it.
 
Eh…? You're not making any fucking sense. 52% of the population DID NOT vote leave, any more than 48% of the population voted remain. You are conflating 'population' with 'electorate', which is exactly what Farage has done - and is still doing.

According to the ONS (Office for National Statistics) (for population and electorate figures, rest of the figures mine):

Population of the UK: around 66m
Size of electorate: around 45m (or roughly ⅔ population)
Percentage of electorate who voted in referendum (turnout): around 73% (or 32.5m)
Percentage who voted as a percentage of total population: about 50%
Percentage of total electorate who voted leave: 38.7%
Percentage of total electorate who voted remain: 35.8%
Percentage of population who voted leave: 26.4%
Percentage of population who voted remain: 24.4%
Therefore, 73.6% of the population did NOT vote to leave the EU.

Apologies if my maths is wrong, or this doesn't make any fucking sense, I'm shite at maths at the best of times - and it's only 09:33 and I'm out of coffee!
Read again what I wrote, because you’ve failed to understand it.
 
I'm not quoting, there are too many smilies.

Gaia there's a convension here that things people have disclosed about their personal life, travailes, difficult times they're going through are not fair game to bring up in an argument. You're out of order in doing that.

Brexit is an utter cluster fuck. The damage a no deal may well wraught, to willingly accept that, for what. However, I perfectly understand why many voted out for reasons I respect. I have no argument with these people. FWIW again, I spoiled my vote because the question was a travesty and I couldn't line up with either of the mainstream arguments as presented. TO either give the EU my seal of approval.Carry on lads. Or to fall in with the nationalists, biggots. (These mainstream arguments.)

But look at the fucking state of it.

Absolutely.

It's entirely possible for decent, intelligent, honourable people to take both Leave and Remain positions - but it's implementation, and the reaction to it, has been a complete Gangfuck: cocks and cunts everywhere.
 
118381774.jpg


I'm not even sorry
 
Summat/owt/nowt/telegraph/mail/tee-total/tipsy/commie infiltrators/my uncle, sister, father, mother maiden aunt/shite/skinnyman/yeah/boring
 
Lexiters: Want to leave the EU, because they think it's capitalist, but leaving the EU would destroy the NHS (which is very obviously socialist (well, socio-democratic)
Socio-democratic? :D

You're not as clever as you think you are.

Oh and everyone knows the uk's capitalist, it's not just the eu you know
 
Comparing my two recent interactions with the USA - the palaver of the tour visa/interview and trying to get my jacket back - with my European experiences show just how fucking shit things might be if we get a hard Brexit. It's the stupidest fucking idea ever, unless you welcome more charges and more bureaucratic, time-sucking, cash-grabbing hassle into your life.
 
Back
Top Bottom