UK music industry, bands, work permits and Brexit

[editor]

People usually only make one journey to work each day But most of them don't fly to America to work.
Bahnhof Strasse is right. The music industry needs to change the way it delivers music, and anybody who pretends to give a fuck about the environment shouldn't be flying around the world on a whim.

Why would musicians be 'flying around the world on a whim'? That makes no sense at all.

I've already stated that mega bands going on endless global tours need to find ways to cut down their carbon emissions, but the vast majority of musicians fly no more than the average holidaymaker - most usually less because they're broke - and certainly far less than many business bosses and billionaires.

 

[Raheem]

You think people voting for Brexit didn’t know it was going to make importing and exporting trickier?

Tbf, some of them did, a lot of them didn't.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Why would musicians be 'flying around the world on a whim'? That makes no sense at all.

I've already stated that mega bands going on endless global tours need to find ways to cut down their carbon emissions, but the vast majority of musicians fly no more than the average holidaymaker - most usually less because they're broke - and certainly far less than many business bosses and billionaires.

Business owners aside, as when they're flying around the world, it's usually to secure contracts or meet up with their suppliers, so, as much as I dislike it, they kinda get a hall pass, as they're employing people, but most musicians are only earning wages, so they don't get the same amount of slack, and the carbon emissions to fly a small band to America would be pretty much the same as flying a big band, but the big band may well be creating hundreds of jobs, so the smaller band may well be worse, on the grand scale.
I'd like to ban all unnecessary flights. That obviously doesn't include holidays, as they're not unnecessary, but I'd certainly be banning unnecessary business trips, and unnecessary band tours, as, In this day of internet and instant video, most of them are completely unnecessary.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

People make far more journeys to work every single day, with many being sole occupant cars. A van full of musicians going up the M1 is hardly an eco disaster.

If we are to save the planet everyone needs to play their part.

 

[Marty1]

Business owners aside, as when they're flying around the world, it's usually to secure contracts or meet up with their suppliers, so, as much as I dislike it, they kinda get a hall pass, as they're employing people, but most musicians are only earning wages, so they don't get the same amount of slack, and the carbon emissions to fly a small band to America would be pretty much the same as flying a big band, but the big band may well be creating hundreds of jobs, so the smaller band may well be worse, on the grand scale.
I'd like to ban all unnecessary flights. That obviously doesn't include holidays, as they're not unnecessary, but I'd certainly be banning unnecessary business trips, and unnecessary band tours, as, In this day of internet and instant video, most of them are completely unnecessary.

Looks like Coldplay and Massive Attack are leading the way.

How One Band Is Helping Climate Researchers Tackle The Music Industry's Carbon Emissions

Researchers are starting to look at how bands can limit carbon emissions on tour.

www.wbur.org

 

[Big Bertha]

It’ll all be done with holograms eventually

 

[editor]

If we are to save the planet everyone needs to play their part.

So you think bands shouldn't play be driving up and down the M1 to ply their trade, despite the fact that this would effectively kill off a large chunk of the music industry, because live gigs are the only way many bands can now support themselves. Right. And seeing as 'everyone needs to play a part' perhaps we can get rid of football too as that involves shitloads of travel, much more than the average small band. And festivals. And any kind of community gathering that involves people travelling to one place.

Or you could perhaps find more practical solutions rather than set about depriving people of the jot of music and sport Taliban-style, and look to the actual big offenders rather than picking on an industry that creates a relatively microscopic amount of emissions?

 

[editor]

Looks like Coldplay and Massive Attack are leading the way.

How One Band Is Helping Climate Researchers Tackle The Music Industry's Carbon Emissions

Researchers are starting to look at how bands can limit carbon emissions on tour.

www.wbur.org

There's plenty of smaller, far less polluting bands who have found ways to tour with minimal impact, but it's good that the worst offenders are realising that they have to change too.

 

[editor]

Business owners aside, as when they're flying around the world, it's usually to secure contracts or meet up with their suppliers, so, as much as I dislike it, they kinda get a hall pass, as they're employing people, but most musicians are only earning wages, so they don't get the same amount of slack, and the carbon emissions to fly a small band to America would be pretty much the same as flying a big band, but the big band may well be creating hundreds of jobs, so the smaller band may well be worse, on the grand scale.

Err, do you think small bands set up and run the PA systems, man the ticket desks, do the promotion, serve the beer, sell the t-shirts, control the lights and all the other jobs involved in putting on a gig then? Bands on tour employ plenty of people, and help keep local venues alive, but the way you're so quick to give a free pass to a businessman on a jolly is telling.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

So you think bands shouldn't play be driving up and down the M1 to ply their trade, despite the fact that this would effectively kill off a large chunk of the music industry, because live gigs are the only way many bands can now support themselves. Right. And seeing as 'everyone needs to play a part' perhaps we can get rid of football too as that involves shitloads of travel, much more than the average small band. And festivals. And any kind of community gathering that involves people travelling to one place.

Or you could perhaps find more practical solutions rather than set about depriving people of the jot of music and sport Taliban-style, and look to the actual big offenders rather than picking on an industry that creates a relatively microscopic amount of emissions?

I'm more than happy to see the back of football, thanks.

And it was at Beautiful Days last year that the environmental impact of the music industry really hit home; when you bought your first drink it was in a solid plastic cup that you paid for and kept for the weekend, (we still use ours today). But the car parks were full or cars, the motor home fields were stoked with, mostly older, more polluting vehicles. The stage areas packed with trucks servicing the (diesel generator powered) stages, the artists and supporting crews all had to get down there and away again. The effect of this X the number of festivals large and small in the UK alone is far from microscopic, as you claim. But you may as well carry on with your selfish attitude, everyone else seems to not give a fuck either, so fill yer boots.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

This sort of stuff is why personal choices aren't going to help the environmental crisis isn't it. Everyone has an argument as to why their bacon sandwich is more important than someone else's flight to play a gig, or vice versa. And it doesn't matter at all how good your case is, ultimately everyone is going to go on their way and do their thing and nothing really gets tackled.

 

[editor]

I'm more than happy to see the back of football, thanks.

And it was at Beautiful Days last year that the environmental impact of the music industry really hit home; when you bought your first drink it was in a solid plastic cup that you paid for and kept for the weekend, (we still use ours today). But the car parks were full or cars, the motor home fields were stoked with, mostly older, more polluting vehicles. The stage areas packed with trucks servicing the (diesel generator powered) stages, the artists and supporting crews all had to get down there and away again. The effect of this X the number of festivals large and small in the UK alone is far from microscopic, as you claim. But you may as well carry on with your selfish attitude, everyone else seems to not give a fuck either, so fill yer boots.

Wait, you've just switched the conversation from bands driving up and down the M1 in a van to mega-festivals which is an entirely different matter. But if I do go to a festival I take the train or bus, btw. I guess that's awfully 'selfish' of me too.

Oh, and the last festival I went to was this one How Green? | The Green Gathering

 

[skyscraper101]

I'm more than happy to see the back of football, thanks.

And it was at Beautiful Days last year that the environmental impact of the music industry really hit home; when you bought your first drink it was in a solid plastic cup that you paid for and kept for the weekend, (we still use ours today). But the car parks were full or cars, the motor home fields were stoked with, mostly older, more polluting vehicles. The stage areas packed with trucks servicing the (diesel generator powered) stages, the artists and supporting crews all had to get down there and away again. The effect of this X the number of festivals large and small in the UK alone is far from microscopic, as you claim. But you may as well carry on with your selfish attitude, everyone else seems to not give a fuck either, so fill yer boots.

Yeah... but all those people just being in the same place at a festival, could be exactly the same (or even less) environmental impact as all those people doing stuff elsewhere. They just happen to be gathered in one location en masse so the environmental 'impact' looks more obvious.

 

[editor]

This sort of stuff is why personal choices aren't going to help the environmental crisis isn't it. Everyone has an argument as to why their bacon sandwich is more important than someone else's flight to play a gig, or vice versa. And it doesn't matter at all how good your case is, ultimately everyone is going to go on their way and do their thing and nothing really gets tackled.

Absolutely, but suggesting that bands should stop playing small gigs up and down the country is going for very low hanging fruit.

 

[8ball]

Absolutely, but suggesting that bands should stop playing small gigs up and down the country is going for very low hanging fruit.

Maybe we could start a "sharing backline saves polar bears" campaign.

 

[editor]

Maybe we could start a "sharing backline saves polar bears" campaign.

I was about to post about this. It's not that hard for small bands to dramatically reduce their environmental impact (even though it's already tiny compared to plenty of other industries) but it would take some effort by venues too, by providing backline. Bands will still have to lug about their guitars/keyboards etc, but as they'd be travelling by train/bus/all in a single car, then they're burning up no more carbon than a family going to visit their nan.

My Brixton gig provided backline, so bands could just get the tube there giving the gig a carbon footprint of close to zero.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Wait, you've just switched the conversation from bands driving up and down the M1 in a van to mega-festivals which is an entirely different matter. But if I do go to a festival I take the train or bus, btw. I guess that's awfully 'selfish' of me too.

.......Or you could perhaps find more practical solutions rather than set about depriving people of the jot of music and sport Taliban-style, and look to the actual big offenders rather than picking on an industry that creates a relatively microscopic amount of emissions?

I believe that festivals (mega and minor) still come under the umbrella of the industry you were talking about.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Yeah... but all those people just being in the same place at a festival, could be exactly the same (or even less) environmental impact as all those people doing stuff elsewhere. They just happen to be gathered in one location en masse so the environmental 'impact' looks more obvious.

Yeah,. heard Eavis spouting the same nonsense, as the Glastonbury pop-up heliport was in full swing behind her...

 

[8ball]

My Brixton gig provided backline, so bands could just get the tube there giving the gig a carbon footprint of close to zero.

Excellent idea for the smaller bands.
20 years ago I was having lots of fun in a band with no driver - taxis full of amps etc.

 

[editor]

I believe that festivals (mega and minor) still come under the umbrella of the industry you were talking about.

So you're against festivals like the Green Gathering too, yes?

 

[Saul Goodman]

Err, do you think small bands set up and run the PA systems, man the ticket desks, do the promotion, serve the beer, sell the t-shirts, control the lights and all the other jobs involved in putting on a gig then? Bands on tour employ plenty of people, and help keep local venues alive, but the way you're so quick to give a free pass to a businessman on a jolly is telling.

I guess it depends on the size of the band, but I'm sure Lady Gaga will be responsible for creating more jobs than a Right Says Fred tribute band, yet it costs the same amount of carbon to get them both from London to America.
The carbon footprint to fly one one person (on a full plane) from London to New York and back, is equivalent to producing around 160 pounds of beef, which is 4x what an average person from the UK consumer per year, That's four years worth of steaks for one return trip to New York. Surely you can see how wrong that is?

 

[8ball]

I guess it depends on the size of the band, but I'm sure Lady Gaga will be responsible for creating more jobs than a Right Says Fred tribute band, yet it costs the same amount of carbon to get them both from London to America.
The carbon footprint to fly one one person (on a full plane) from London to New York and back, is equivalent to producing around 160 pounds of beef, which is 4x what an average person from the UK consumer per year, That's four years worth of steaks for one return trip to New York. Surely you can see how wrong that is?

Urban can produce 160 pounds of beef on an average weekend.

 

[editor]

Excellent idea for the smaller bands.
20 years ago I was having lots of fun in a band with no driver - taxis full of amps etc.

Being a drummer, I remember the pain of having to get cabs after the show, so I bought a basic kit for the venue, along with amps for the rest of the and so they could travel to the gig by public transport. It's a small thing but it has a fairly big impact.

 

[editor]

I guess it depends on the size of the band, but I'm sure Lady Gaga will be responsible for creating more jobs than a Right Says Fred tribute band, yet it costs the same amount of carbon to get them both from London to America.

It takes the same amount of carbon as a family going to Disneyland. So do you want to ban all trans-atlantic flights?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

So you're against festivals like the Green Gathering too, yes?

Did I say that? Did I say that I am 'against' any of this? Green Gathering is far from carbon neutral though, that is even taking in to account that carbon neutral is a bogus target to aim for in the first place, but is a start.

 

[8ball]

Being a drummer, I remember the pain of having to get cabs after the show, so I bought a basic kit for the venue, along with amps for the rest of the and so they could travel to the gig by public transport. It's a small thing but it has a fairly big impact.

Also greatly reduces the barrier to entry for people with not that much kit (renting practice rooms etc.) who want to play a gig.
The live scene is flagging in a lot of places right now and a little thinking of this kind can def make a big difference.

 

[editor]

Did I say that? Did I say that I am 'against' any of this? Green Gathering is far from carbon neutral though, that is even taking in to account that carbon neutral is a bogus target to aim for in the first place, but is a start.

I'd say that it's more than a 'start.' I'd say that they're doing an amazing and inspirational job that shows how festivals could - and should - be.

 

[ska invita]

interesting that a diesel car with 4 in is the same as a train per head

 

[Saul Goodman]

It takes the same amount of carbon as a family going to Disneyland. So do you want to ban all trans-atlantic flights?

I don't think banning all trans-atlantic flights is an option, although I'd certainly like to ban all trips to Disneyland.
Some trans-atlantic flights are essential, others are pure folly, and given that we have the ability to watch bands live on TV, I see no reason for them to be travelling around the world.
We have to start somewhere, and bands have access to a platform from which to broadcast the message that so many flights are absolutely unnecessary, and they should lead by example.

 

[nogojones]

Business owners aside, as when they're flying around the world, it's usually to secure contracts or meet up with their suppliers, so, as much as I dislike it, they kinda get a hall pass, as they're employing people, but most musicians are only earning wages, so they don't get the same amount of slack, and the carbon emissions to fly a small band to America would be pretty much the same as flying a big band, but the big band may well be creating hundreds of jobs, so the smaller band may well be worse, on the grand scale.
I'd like to ban all unnecessary flights. That obviously doesn't include holidays, as they're not unnecessary, but I'd certainly be banning unnecessary business trips, and unnecessary band tours, as, In this day of internet and instant video, most of them are completely unnecessary.

And most bands sound much better on record anyway