UK Gas and Electricity Crisis Looming

[andysays]

From the bbc : minister energy statement

“
First, the government will not bail out failing companies, he says. There must be “no rewards for failure or mismanagement”.

Second, customers must be protected from price rises.

And, third, the energy market as a whole should not suffer because of poor practices by a minority of companies. He says competition must continue. He does not want to return to the oligopoly of the past.”


So basically capitalism and the free market isn’t working is it ?

Duplicitous Imbeciles

I don't understand enough about the specifics of this industry to comment, but maybe someone here will.

Is it genuinely the case that these companies are in trouble because of mismanagement or poor practices, or is it more (as I suspect) that the structure of the industry is the problem, with many small companies trying to undercut each other?

 

[Raheem]

My electricity supplier has ".com" as part of its name, so I think I can assume I will be getting a new one soon.

 

[tim]

It really is time we found a few lamp posts for these twats.

London has over a thousand street gaslamps at very convenient locations

 

[danny la rouge]

I don't understand enough about the specifics of this industry to comment, but maybe someone here will.

Is it genuinely the case that these companies are in trouble because of mismanagement or poor practices, or is it more (as I suspect) that the structure of the industry is the problem, with many small companies trying to undercut each other?

I don’t know the specifics of the energy supply market either, but I do know that when you switch supplier you still get exactly the same gas coming through your pipes or electricity through your wires. It’s not as if you have a bank of gas outlets on the skirting board and you pick the cheapest one.

Therefore they’re undercutting each other to “supply” the exact same product as the next company.

 

[Raheem]

They don't even supply it. The service they provide is basically taking your money.

 

[andysays]

I don’t know the specifics of the energy supply market either, but I do know that when you switch supplier you still get exactly the same gas coming through your pipes or electricity through your wires. It’s not as if you have a bank of gas outlets on the skirting board and you pick the cheapest one.

Therefore they’re undercutting each other to “supply” the exact same product as the next company.

And presumably they don't do anything to "produce" that product, but are in effect simply buying from the real producers and selling on, acting merely as agents.

Doesn't seem to be a sustainable way of doing business, especially if they're offering fixed price contracts which are then made economically impossible to keep to when real prices go up.

 

[danny la rouge]

They don't even supply it. The service they provide is basically taking your money.

That’s why I put supply in inverted commas. It’s a bizarre game of prentendy competition.

 

[danny la rouge]

And presumably they don't do anything to "produce" that product, but are in effect simply buying from the real producers and selling on, acting merely as agents.

Doesn't seem to be a sustainable way of doing business, especially if they're offering fixed price contracts which are then made economically impossible to keep to when real prices go up.

It’s inefficient if the aim was distribution of energy. But an amazing confidence trick if the aim is to make tons of money from speculation.

 

[andysays]

It’s inefficient if the aim was distribution of energy. But an amazing confidence trick if the aim is to make tons of money from speculation.

Yeah, I'm sure this is what it's mostly about, but I still don't quite understand how exactly those tons of money are made, and by whom.

The main thing though is that it really isn't about mismanagement by individual companies, but the system being created in such a way that it was never sustainable.

 

[two sheds]

I've got a gas hob and a gas boiler.
I wonder if I should buy an electric plate hob and an electric blow heater while they're still in stock?

I've been using an induction hob over summer with an air fryer, am really impressed by them although for induction hob you need pans with magnetic bases.

 

[ska invita]

I've been using an induction hob over summer with an air fryer, am really impressed by them although for induction hob you need pans with magnetic bases.

Important information, thanks. Don't have those

 

[two sheds]

Why I don't mind paying over the odds at Ecotricity is that they and Ovo? actually produce the electricity. I read (a while ago admittedly) that all except those two instead offer 'green' tariffs by buying in credits, which can be seen as greenwashing.

https://www.goodenergy.co.uk/media/18782/the-problem-of-greenwashing-october-2020.pdf

 

[two sheds]

Important information, thanks. Don't have those

The air fryer also has the side benefit that you can cure spliff very precisely (e.g. 120 mins @ 100C). Or so I'm told.

And you use much less cooking oil. Induction hob is efficient because you're only really heating the pan.

 

[peterkro]

I believe there are possible reactions to this popular in many countries including Greece and Spain ( and BITD the U.K. ).

 

[WouldBe]

Important information, thanks. Don't have those

You could stick a steel plate on the hob and stick a normal pan on top.

 

[two sheds]

A fine point. Eta: that must make it less efficient though.

I just got a small, medium and large sized pan from (mainly) second hand shops. There is a maximum and minimum size though.

 

[tim]

Why I don't mind paying over the odds at Ecotricity is that they and Ovo? actually produce the electricity. I read (a while ago admittedly) that all except those two instead offer 'green' tariffs by buying in credits, which can be seen as greenwashing.

https://www.goodenergy.co.uk/media/18782/the-problem-of-greenwashing-october-2020.pdf

Does the fact that Dale Vince, the owner of Ecotricity, is a nasty smug shit not bother you?

Dale Vince divorce ruling 'like cashing in old lottery ticket'

Eco chief Dale Vince plots a very unethical coup at his green rival

Ecotricity Reviews

 

[stavros]

Does the fact that Dale Vince, the owner of Ecotricity, is a nasty smug shit not bother you?

Dale Vince divorce ruling 'like cashing in old lottery ticket'

Eco chief Dale Vince plots a very unethical coup at his green rival

Ecotricity Reviews

His ego seems to have grown over the five years or so I've been with them. There's a Branson-esque vibe about him.

 

[two sheds]

Does the fact that Dale Vince, the owner of Ecotricity, is a nasty smug shit not bother you?

Dale Vince divorce ruling 'like cashing in old lottery ticket'

Eco chief Dale Vince plots a very unethical coup at his green rival

Ecotricity Reviews

will take a look ta, I don't know much about him. Any worse than buying from Amazon or Microsoft or Apple though?

Anyone know what the CEO of Ovo is like?

 

[elbows]

I don't understand enough about the specifics of this industry to comment, but maybe someone here will.

Is it genuinely the case that these companies are in trouble because of mismanagement or poor practices, or is it more (as I suspect) that the structure of the industry is the problem, with many small companies trying to undercut each other?

Probably some of them didnt hedge their bets when it came to future prices they'd have to pay. There has probably been a popular business model in that sector in recent years that relied on prices staying low and being able to get a huge number of customers onto their books quickly by offering unsustainably low prices to their customers. Success for them meant getting the timing of their exit right, selling their business and customer base before the price landscape changed in a way that would doom their entire model.

I expect there were a large bunch that went for an extreme version of the above and now they are fucked. They might even have been selling to customers below cost. They have no wiggle room so they are fucked. Other companies probably went for a longer term version of profiteering where they were slightly less greedy and did hedge their bets in terms of the prices they pay. They will be partially insulated against the price rises as a result of their hedging activities. I expect there are tried and tested ways to hedge against price rises, and the risk of not doing so is rather obvious. Those that hedged will still find the current circumstances very difficult but even if they are up shit creek they still have some kind of paddle.

 

[two sheds]

Will be interesting to see whether Ecotricity and Ovo survive, so whether owning own renewables supply makes a difference.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Let's play a game.

I'm currently on emergency tariff after the last energy company died, got moved to edf.

Checking uSwitch it looks like I'm liable to go up by a minimum of 22 quid if I switch to a fixed rate. Edf have me pegged for 25 quid

How's everyone else doing?

 

[Artaxerxes]

From the bbc : minister energy statement

“
First, the government will not bail out failing companies, he says. There must be “no rewards for failure or mismanagement”.

Second, customers must be protected from price rises.

And, third, the energy market as a whole should not suffer because of poor practices by a minority of companies. He says competition must continue. He does not want to return to the oligopoly of the past.”


So basically capitalism and the free market isn’t working is it ?

Duplicitous Imbeciles

Has he seen whose in cabinet?

 

[Storm Fox]

Will be interesting to see whether Ecotricity and Ovo survive, so whether owning own renewables supply makes a difference.

SSE is now part of the OVO Group too. How that is set up, I'm not sure as I thought OVO was the smaller of the 2 companies.

 

[two sheds]

Hard to know what to do for the best tbh. I'm reluctant to change because I've got solar panels which I think make it more complicated. Shame Bristol Energy went tits up for whatever reason - local companies seem like a good solution.

 

[Riklet]

Right I might have to change energy company soon cos I'm moving house and have to get it all set up.

Octopus looks pretty reliable and unlikely go bust. Thats the good. The bad is that their best offers atm for new customers are way worse than the terms and rates my mate is on with them. Gas has literally doubled in price etc. Boooo!!

BTW Bristol Energy were/are the biggest crock of shit ever. Massive cushy council corruption there as the Bristolians of the board will know. Absolutely hopeless. For me, "local energy" means the opposite of this useless corrupt model.

 

[Supine]

Will be interesting to see whether Ecotricity and Ovo survive, so whether owning own renewables supply makes a difference.

If it didn’t the whole thing is a con. It’s the gas price that went up!

 

[two sheds]

Ecotricity supply gas too but fair point.

 

[Kaka Tim]

It's electric and gas thats fucked though isn't it?
As a huge proportion of electricity generation comes from burning gas

 

[RileyOBlimey]

I've got a gas hob and a gas boiler.
I wonder if I should buy an electric plate hob and an electric blow heater while they're still in stock?

A very fat percentage of the UKs electricity is generated by gas burning power stations. Whoops!