UK Gas and Electricity Crisis Looming

[Cerv]

Energy bills: flat dwellers face massive rise despite price cap

Hundreds of thousands of people with communal heating systems are missing out on protection

www.theguardian.com

The Ofgem residential consumer energy price cap doesn't apply if (like me) you live in a block with communal heating. Because the building is buying through an uncapped commercial contract, of which you pay a share.

Haven't had any letter yet about a rate increase. Something to look forward to I guess.

 

[two sheds]

With the large profits most landlords have been making over the last few years particularly, you'd think it was time for them to reinvest by making their property energy efficient.

 

[WouldBe]

Switch to eon and get some free socks.

 

[platinumsage]

 

[not-bono-ever]

With the large profits most landlords have been making over the last few years particularly, you'd think it was time for them to reinvest by making their property energy efficient.

Not when many of them and their agents tie their tenants into rapacious energy deals in their contract t&c & get a commission from the supplier

 

[Dogsauce]

Seems strange that over the last day or so wind generation has been maxed out, but they’re still burning coal and instead reducing gas generation. I thought coal was normally the first thing shut down when there was enough power from other sources, presumably they’re doing this to save money and fuck the climate.

 

[Dogsauce]

Also this Twitter thread is interesting, pointing out that in these times of high prices and gas shortages, U.K. gas exports have doubled, as the companies that extract the gas sell to the highest bidder. As good an argument as any for state control and ownership.

 

[platinumsage]

Also this Twitter thread is interesting, pointing out that in these times of high prices and gas shortages, U.K. gas exports have doubled, as the companies that extract the gas sell to the highest bidder. As good an argument as any for state control and ownership.

Forgoing market price on UK-sourced gas instead of allowing it to be sold on the global market is no different to buying it on the global market and subsidizing the price. State-control of domestic producers is therefore irrelevant to the domestic price of gas.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Forgoing market price on UK-sourced gas instead of allowing it to be sold on the global market is no different to buying it on the global market and subsidizing the price. State-control of domestic producers is therefore irrelevant to the domestic price of gas.

Sorry is that really true; am I missing something really big here?

On the one hand 'forgoing market price' doesn't require any actual additional expenditure (i.e. above that between the treasury and the state owned energy company), the receipts on a state owned asset come back into the treasury and consumers' bills can be kept down.

On the other hand buying on the global market and then subsidising does require actual additional expenditure; in the form of the subsidy. The initial expenditure to the privately owned energy is also partially lost to those companies/share holders (less taxes also paid by their state owned equivalents). Bills are kept down but it is more expensive to do so.

Surely it is not economic arguments but political ones that prevent the nationalisation (or even better the socialisation) of essential services such as energy extraction and production?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

p.s. This is also not Black's main point; he is more concerned with challenging the energy security arguments.

 

[two sheds]

Yes the buying/selling argument would only be true if you're selling abroad at price and then later buying back at full market value wouldn't it? (And even then I'm not sure, my head starts to hurt when I try to think of it)

 

[MickiQ]

A state owned energy company could sell at whatever price it (or the politicians) chooses. So long as the sale price is above the production cost then it doesn't matter what the profit margin is, it just means the Govt dividend is smaller.
A number of other things would factor in most notably the cost of buying the companies, it could end up selling gas more expensively than a private company in order to recoup its setup cost unless the Govt just writes it off which might be more expensive than a subsidy.
The energy security argument is a better one for nationalisation than the consumer cost one.
I'm sure someone will respond with 'We will just seize them' but that isn't all that good an idea in Massively Delusional Socialist Fantasy World never mind the real one.

 

[two sheds]

You'd want to buy when share prices are lowest, like I presume it would have been useful to buy train companies when traveller numbers were lowest because of covid. Whether you'd be able to 'encourage' lower share prices by government policy is something else though

 

[Dogsauce]

You'd want to buy when share prices are lowest, like I presume it would have been useful to buy train companies when traveller numbers were lowest because of covid. Whether you'd be able to 'encourage' lower share prices by government policy is something else though

You don’t need to buy the train companies as they don’t actually own anything, rolling stock is leased and infrastructure belongs to network rail. Just terminate or wait out contracts then reemploy staff under a new state company.

 

[platinumsage]

We abandoned fracking and cut investment in North Sea gas fields so we could import tankers of fracked gas from the USA.

 

[elbows]

The North Sea was a largely spent force and its been quite impressive how much we've still managed to extract for many years well past the peak. That doesnt mean I'm in complete agreement with policy in recent times, but I can see why they've deemphasised such things, they could still have been exploited further in the short term but they had no long term future of sufficient scale anyway.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Sunak is payday lending us a discount on energy bills

 

[danny la rouge]

ACG call to action: Yet more price rises while the rich still profit - Anarchist Communist Group

 

[brogdale]

I feel that I'm going to spend much of the evening yelling at my television calling for the thin piano wire.

 

[krink]

I'm really confused how the rebate on the household energy bill will work inpractice - from what I just read on BBC it seems like people on pre-payment (me) won't get it as we don't get a bill, we pay upfront and our tarifs are already higher. I don't even want this meter but it was here when i moved in and the social landlord wont remove it. I'm already stuck working from home and it's costing me a fortune that I can't afford as my pay is shit. fuck me what a depressing time!

 

[existentialist]

I wonder if there will be a significant increase in people bypassing their meters?

 

[MickiQ]

How is this £200 rebate going to work then? Will I get a cheque come October or will they just knock it off what I owe British Gas? Same for the 'repayments' I presume there will be a line on my bills that will say Sunak Loan Sharks.

 

[Raheem]

I'm really confused how the rebate on the household energy bill will work inpractice - from what I just read on BBC it seems like people on pre-payment (me) won't get it as we don't get a bill, we pay upfront and our tarifs are already higher. I don't even want this meter but it was here when i moved in and the social landlord wont remove it. I'm already stuck working from home and it's costing me a fortune that I can't afford as my pay is shit. fuck me what a depressing time!

Surely they're not going to be able to get away with excluding prepayment meters? Wouldn't be surprising if they just haven't thought about it, though.

 

[MickiQ]

Wouldn't be surprising if they just haven't thought about it, though.

NO!! the Govt not thinking things through say it ain't so!

 

[Artaxerxes]

Surely they're not going to be able to get away with excluding prepayment meters? Wouldn't be surprising if they just haven't thought about it, though.

Oh they will.

Payment meters are already fucking cons

 

[Serge Forward]

ACG call to action: Yet more price rises while the rich still profit - Anarchist Communist Group

That article has a new "stop press" addition on Sunak's measures.

 

[Cerv]

I'm really confused how the rebate on the household energy bill will work inpractice - from what I just read on BBC it seems like people on pre-payment (me) won't get it as we don't get a bill, we pay upfront and our tarifs are already higher. I don't even want this meter but it was here when i moved in and the social landlord wont remove it. I'm already stuck working from home and it's costing me a fortune that I can't afford as my pay is shit. fuck me what a depressing time!

How is this £200 rebate going to work then? Will I get a cheque come October or will they just knock it off what I owe British Gas? Same for the 'repayments' I presume there will be a line on my bills that will say Sunak Loan Sharks.

so many questions about implementing this.
if you change suppliers at any time in the next 5 years will you have to keep the old account open too for the annual £40 repayment?
going to be a right faff for people splitting bills in flat shares where people come and go.

surely it would have been easier just to tack it on to the council tax discount? made that 350 instead of 150 this year.

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

I'm really confused how the rebate on the household energy bill will work inpractice - from what I just read on BBC it seems like people on pre-payment (me) won't get it as we don't get a bill, we pay upfront and our tarifs are already higher. I don't even want this meter but it was here when i moved in and the social landlord wont remove it. I'm already stuck working from home and it's costing me a fortune that I can't afford as my pay is shit. fuck me what a depressing time!

Is the account on the pre-payment meter in your name?

so many questions about implementing this.
if you change suppliers at any time in the next 5 years will you have to keep the old account open too for the annual £40 repayment?
going to be a right faff for people splitting bills in flat shares where people come and go.

surely it would have been easier just to tack it on to the council tax discount? made that 350 instead of 150 this year.

I'm on an estate central heating and hot water system like you but I think (from skim reading the announcements) that the discount can be applied to the electricity bill?
e2a: I'm pretty sure that is how it works for the warm home discount: you get it via your electricity supplier even if you have a gas heater.

 

[cybershot]

If you're on prepay, you should get the rebate automatically if you have smart meters, while those without smart meters will get a voucher or cheque, similar to how the warm home discount is paid for those on prepay.

Source: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/n...p-to-p350-in-support-for-households-to-mitig/

 

[Artaxerxes]

Sunak said that as things stood, the price cap of £1,971 set by the energy regulator Ofgem would rise further in the autumn, prompting calls for the government to do more to help those on the poorest incomes.

More rises ahead in the Autumn apparently.

Feeling a bit overwhelmed by the sheer powerlessness to act right now.

 

[Pickman's model]

It's good to see the likes of shell announcing record profits at a time like this