no-no
Small robot you know
precisely the opposite. they took the jobs under the impression there would be no sexual abuse.
UK captains of industry have charity night where they sexually assault young female 'hostesses'
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precisely the opposite. they took the jobs under the impression there would be no sexual abuse.
no-no
Small robot you know
"No they can’t. They can pay to see you take part in a fight that regulators have a responsibility to ensure is fair enough not to present undue risk, and where they have a responsibility to stop it if it goes too far.
I can’t just pay one desperate person to beat up another desperate person."
and if prostitution were regulated and run to the same standards as boxing? shouldn't it be?
"Ah, so being able to pay to engage in an assault is to be justified on the basis of tradition..."
no, not justified. I don't think boxing is justifiable either but I don't think it's going to disappear because I want it to and neither is prostitution.
"For a start, there is little point in criminalising to one forced by economic coercion into offering themselves for the assault. The criminal is the one taking advantage of their economic power."
yes i agree but even criminalising the customers affects the workers. they can't advertise, can't work in a safe environment. Why couldn't it be regulated properly?
sorry, i should learn to use the quotes properly.....
I can’t just pay one desperate person to beat up another desperate person."
and if prostitution were regulated and run to the same standards as boxing? shouldn't it be?
"Ah, so being able to pay to engage in an assault is to be justified on the basis of tradition..."
no, not justified. I don't think boxing is justifiable either but I don't think it's going to disappear because I want it to and neither is prostitution.
"For a start, there is little point in criminalising to one forced by economic coercion into offering themselves for the assault. The criminal is the one taking advantage of their economic power."
yes i agree but even criminalising the customers affects the workers. they can't advertise, can't work in a safe environment. Why couldn't it be regulated properly?
sorry, i should learn to use the quotes properly.....
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
You do realise that prostitutes (I'm going to use that word for disambiguation) are frequently abused too, don't you? They are - shockingly - also women capable of human feelings. And 'legalising prostitution' won't do squat to change anything as long as entitled sociopaths like those men are allowed to get away with this sort of behaviour?
no-no
Small robot you know
Yes I do realise that, what I'm talking about is harm reduction at most.
no-no
Small robot you know
yes I see that but the people in the sex show are still having sex for money. What's the difference other than that they work in a safer environment? which is exactly what I'm saying all sex workers should have.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
An audience
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Why didn't the organisers hire 130 escorts? There would have been no ambiguity then about the role. 
I should imagined that the FT have done themselves no favours as far as their advertising take goes, they have offended a lot of very powerful people.
I should imagined that the FT have done themselves no favours as far as their advertising take goes, they have offended a lot of very powerful people.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
win-win then.
no-no
Small robot you know
and the person they're having sex with? just whoever the other employees is?
In terms of saftey, why would we allow sex workers on tv or sex shows more security than those on the street?
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
To your first point, there is still ambiguity if escorts are waiting on tables. To your second point, I think the future of young women is more important than those people's feelings. Or money. Young women are still going through the same shit now as they did twenty years ago. That has to change.Why didn't the organisers hire 130 escorts? There would have been no ambiguity then about the role.
I should imagined that the FT have done themselves no favours as far as their advertising take goes, they have offended a lot of very powerful people.
no-no
Small robot you know
Gonna have a think on that, i see what you're saying but it feels like the people working the streets are being abandoned and more problems flow from that. Thanks for not calling me a cunt.
An individual who also knows exactly what they are signing up for and knows where their absolute right to withdraw lies. An individual who has had the chance to agree what the rules of engagement are and has no interest in circumventing them.
I still hate the idea of it, mind, and judge those who would go as morally bankrupt. But it is qualitatively different and can be judged for legality on its own merits, not by analogy to something it isn’t.
I’m not allowing anything here. You are.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
Well, I've never read the FT, but will accept your implication that it isn't worth reading.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
For a long time it's been known that prostitutes on the streets are less safe than women working together in a flat or house. Yet the latter is criminalised while the former isn't. Go figure
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
There should be no sex workers on the street. It is time that the law caught up with the actuality, and brothels were legalised in the UK. I would rather that no one had to make a living in this way, but whilst it happens, it should be as safe as possible. Working on the streets is never safe.
no-no
Small robot you know
Bad language on my part. With increased regulation the only people who wouldn't be "allowed" to do anything are those who exploit the situation as it is.
no-no
Small robot you know
Poot and Pickmans agree?
What happens if these rich twats simply hire a brothel for their charity night? Isn't that pretty much the situation I've been talking about?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Poot and Pickman's often agree
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
If the organisers had hired prostitutes/escorts then that would have ruined (much of) the fun for the guests.
Removing both the pretence that these women are being won over by their charm and sophistication and deeper down removing the raw thrill of flaunting their power over the waitresses.
Prostitution would've been too banal a transaction. It wasn't (just) about sex.
Removing both the pretence that these women are being won over by their charm and sophistication and deeper down removing the raw thrill of flaunting their power over the waitresses.
Prostitution would've been too banal a transaction. It wasn't (just) about sex.
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
It is a pity they didn't. At least the women concerned would have known the score.
The Octagon
Stop...Hammertime
Exactly, it's not about sex, it's about power.
If those exploiting economic coercion to force sex on another were prosecuted for assault, I reckon things might start to change. Attitudes towards it for a start.
Poot
My wife thinks I work too hard
I was agreeing with Sass's last sentence, really. Sex workers need more protection. But if a village is being stalked by a lion, rather than keep building fences, eventually you're going to have to shoot the lion.
So let's deal with men's attitudes rather than keep trying to protect women.
crossthebreeze
Well-Known Member
Firstly (as others have said) this behaviour is not about sex - its about men bonding by demonstrating their (class and gender-based) power over these women. And even if the women were all prostitutes, they should be able to negotiate and be suitably paid for any sexual services, and would have limits and boundaries about what they would do (sometimes as simple as no kissing), and should be able to refuse consent. This would be sexual assault and harassment and appallingly exploitative work conditions whatever the job title.
Quite. And the fact that some think the problems all go away just by ascribing the label “prostitute” speaks volumes.
likesfish
You can't park here sir
If you can't have a men's only night without groping the waiting staff then you don't get to have nice things and while a 20 something bloke would be an immature twat anyone over 30 who is I imagine giving the large sums to charity is just a twat if they cant keep their hands to themselves.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
FWIW there is at least one report that they did hire (edit: sorry - the report actually says they were present, albeit in matching garb) prostitutes/escorts for the afterparty, but had them wear red dresses rather than black.
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Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
WTF? Have you drink taken?Why didn't the organisers hire 130 escorts? There would have been no ambiguity then about the role.
I should imagined that the FT have done themselves no favours as far as their advertising take goes, they have offended a lot of very powerful people.
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