Turning Point UK / TPUK WTAF?

[Sasaferrato]

That's because the right wing tend to round up and kill the whole family.

I was going to reply with a 'smiley', but it isn't appropriate, because you have a valid point. Both extremes are repugnant.

Thankfully, British political view is set in the 'middle third' of the spectrum, we have never done extremist politics to any degree. Unfortunately, Labour has fucked itself right royally, and won't be back into government for at least five, but more likely, ten years. Not healthy, not healthy at all.

 

[SpineyNorman]

There is no place in education for 'educator' who are politically biased.

Can you tell me why the far right is worse than the far left? Stalin after all (and it doesn't get much further left than that) killed at least as many people as the Nazis. AFAIK there hasn't been a right wing regime that forced people into cannibalising their children, something that happened during the Stalin regime.

No. Not because I can't but because I can't be arsed.

 

[ska invita]

Yeah no offence Mation but you've got this one wrong, Marty1 is a hard right wanker. Calling him a cunt is not "bullying" it is a political attack, just like calling someone who crosses a picket line a scab is.

im a bit confused....ive read you repeatedly making the case for engaging with right wing working class people/voters and saying the approach should be to understand, convince and win 'back' etc etc . ?

 

[flypanam]

TP has launched in Ireland, got off to a great start by attacking James Connolly. Hermann Kelly endearing himself to Irish students.

 

[Sasaferrato]

No. Not because I can't but because I can't be arsed.

No, you cannot. Far left and far right are two sides of the Sam revolting coin.

 

[rekil]

The cannibal witch in hansel and gretel was even more leftist than Stalin imo.

 

[Artaxerxes]

There is no place in education for 'educator' who are politically biased.

Can you tell me why the far right is worse than the far left? Stalin after all (and it doesn't get much further left than that) killed at least as many people as the Nazis. AFAIK there hasn't been a right wing regime that forced people into cannibalising their children, something that happened during the Stalin regime.

All education is politically biased because at a minimum all people are politically biased one way or another and especially so because the educational syllabus is driven by government or school policy which will direct down specific paths.

 

[redsquirrel]

im a bit confused....ive read you repeatedly making the case for engaging with right wing working class people/voters and saying the approach should be to understand, convince and win 'back' etc etc . ?

Well I'm not sure I have argued that exactly. I've argued that the working class is the only engine that can drive the changes I want to see and that is true regardless of what "regressive" views that might be held.

Regardless I don't see any contradiction between arguing for engaging with people as they are and telling Marty1 to fuck off.
Sometimes you make the tactical decision to call scabs scabs and even apply physical pressure to make sure people don't cross picket lines. Other times you have to take a different approach, talk to people about how crossing a picket line is against their own interests, maybe try to get them see what they are doing, etc.
Red Action took physical action to ensure fascists were unable to organise on the streets, later a number of the same people formed the IWCA still with the aim of denying the far right political space but via different means

There's no contradiction there you are tailoring your response to the situation. It's no different here, sometimes there is time for discussion, engagement sometimes the correct tactic is fuck off. Marty1 has passed the point where the first is useful (generally there may be exceptions and we can deal with them as they arise).

Does that help clarify things?

 

[Proper Tidy]

Can you tell me why the far right is worse than the far left?

Um

 

[Santino]

Far right: We should murder people of different races.

Far left: We should radically reorganise society so that no one is poor.

Sasaferrato, a political genius: These things are identical.

 

[Pickman's model]

I was going to reply with a 'smiley', but it isn't appropriate, because you have a valid point. Both extremes are repugnant.

Thankfully, British political view is set in the 'middle third' of the spectrum, we have never done extremist politics to any degree. Unfortunately, Labour has fucked itself right royally, and won't be back into government for at least five, but more likely, ten years. Not healthy, not healthy at all.

i think you might change your mind if you decided to read the history of this country

 

[Pickman's model]

There is no place in education for 'educator' who are politically biased.

Can you tell me why the far right is worse than the far left? Stalin after all (and it doesn't get much further left than that) killed at least as many people as the Nazis. AFAIK there hasn't been a right wing regime that forced people into cannibalising their children, something that happened during the Stalin regime.

so the british regimes which presided over the irish famine of the 1840s and the bengal famine of 1943/44, where would you put them? according to this link, cannibalism was likely practiced in ireland then.

 

[redsquirrel]

im a bit confused....ive read you repeatedly making the case for engaging with right wing working class people/voters and saying the approach should be to understand, convince and win 'back' etc etc . ?

Not being arsey here (well at least I'm trying not to be, apologises if it is coming across that way) ska but could you explain why/where you think I've made the above argument?

I'm genuinely puzzled as how you've read this as it's its so far away from my politics, the whole basis of it starts from a type of vanguardism that I've tried to reject in my politics.

 

[chilango]

Sasaferrato
Would you like to clarify your position on political bias in educators?

 

[Pickman's model]

Sasaferrato
Would you like to clarify your position on political bias in educators?

i wonder what Sasaferrato's views on political bias among army instructors are

 

[chilango]

Y'know I really wish education and academia were as much of a nest of the far-left as people say. I'd probably get a good job.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Sasaferrato
Would you like to clarify your position on political bias in educators?

Simple, it should be absent. Political indoctrination is not part of the job.

 

[Marty1]

Simple, it should be absent. Political indoctrination is not part of the job.

Yeah, it’s a basic concept that some on here seem unable to grasp - or do grasp but are in favour of educators at present having a majority of left wing bias that suits their ideology.

 

[Pickman's model]

Simple, it should be absent. Political indoctrination is not part of the job.

have you heard of the national curriculum?

 

[two sheds]

.

https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/what-do-you-have-on-ignore.369416/post-16415273

Tell me, if the reason you don't answer questions is because you have people on ignore, how do you know that they're asking you questions?

Apart from the other people that are asking you questions that you're ignoring of course.

 

[steeplejack]

Yeah, it’s a basic concept that some on here seem unable to grasp - or do grasp but are in favour of educators at present having a majority of left wing bias that suits their ideology.

^^^ word salad

 

[Pickman's model]

Yeah, it’s a basic concept that some on here seem unable to grasp - or do grasp but are in favour of educators at present having a majority of left wing bias that suits their ideology.

you don't know what you're wittering on about either

 

[Pickman's model]

^^^ word salad

more like verbal diarrhoea

 

[Serge Forward]

Simple, it should be absent. Political indoctrination is not part of the job.

It's always been present. When I was a nipper, we had to sing All Things Bright and Beautiful (the rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate, god made them high and lowly and ordered their estate). Lessons were all about how great King this or Queen that was and how the British Empire had been a force for good and why the monarchy is wonderful. It's just that, when it's a right wing bias, it's not actually counted as bias at all, more the natural order and how things should be. The best educators encourage critical thought... unfortunately, being critical is seen as left wing and biased.

 

[chilango]

Simple, it should be absent. Political indoctrination is not part of the job.

You think teaching and learning can be neutral?

 

[Proper Tidy]

Imagine teaching any subject free of any sort of political or social bias is impossible but what chance could you have with history or social sciences, fuck all chance. Some subjects - business, economics if you're at some la di da school - are fundamentally political although they represent the established consensus so presumably get a pass from tory weirdos. As serge says, the best teachers would simply give their own view while teaching pupils/students to think for themselves and draw their own conclusions.

Personal anecdote - I mostly hated learning and fucked about in school but I loved history cos of the teacher, he had fucked up politics really, I suppose broadly left and defo anti tory but with quite err reactionary attitudes to anti social behaviour and half jokingly half seriously used to frequently moan that you couldn't hit kids any more. He was also an ardent scottish nationalist in a welsh school who wasn't afraid of expressing his contempt for the perceived lack of national identity and separatist passions in his pupils, and for somebody who didn't fight in the war cos he was too young his views on the germans and japanese were grim really. Would be loads I'd disagree with him on today I'm sure but he taught kids to think and never minded when people disagreed with him as long as they had an opinion. Great teacher and tbh he didn't have the best material to work with really. Will never forget how excited he got when he taught us about the rebecca rioters. Think he's dead now.

 

[chilango]

Yeah, it’s a basic concept that some on here seem unable to grasp - or do grasp but are in favour of educators at present having a majority of left wing bias that suits their ideology.

Ha ha. You got any data to support this?

 

[chilango]

I mean Sasaferrato and Marty1 have you got any evidence at all to support your your claims that:

1/ Education is dominated by those with a Left-wing bias?

2/ Education can, or should, be neutral and empty of political opinion?

Anything?

 

[The39thStep]

I found out years later that my favourite Primary School teacher was a Mosleyite

 

[Pickman's model]

Marty1, Sasaferrato it's a great disgrace for education in the uk that you are utterly ignorant of the way the conservative party has treated education, with for example the effective prohibition of teaching about homosexuality under the famous clause 28 or the introduction of the national curriculum in 1988.

so you have two choices.

educate yourselves and join in the debate with some knowledge to offer, or stfu you ignorant twats.