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Transphobes gunning hard for 'paedophilia' angle all of a sudden

So today brought my first real life encounter with some hardcore TERFs (who I would call that) at a protest my oldest wanted to go to, and I wanted to accompany them as there was a risk of things getting a bit hardcore and I wanted to be there with them.

The pro trans right side easily outnumbered the TERFs, as I expect, and I found the TERFs' attitude interesting. While the trans side was (justifiably) angry, the TERF response was to stand there and smile smugly, like 'Oh. My. God. What do you look like?! You stupid naive little puppies.' (they were distinctly older on average than the trans crowd). Yet you know they won't hestitate to run to the press and go 'Look how much of the public is against us scrappy underdogs, we were so scared by the mob with their masks and yelling' - although the masks were necessitated by draconian protest laws rather than anyone planning to do anything sinister. Of course, none of them wore masks - they were confident the police would be on their side as long as they didn't kick off, they are confident the press and the 'mainstream is on their side (despite them being a minority) and frankly I suppose a lot of them wouldn't wear masks as they're conspiraloons. :rolleyes:
 
Cloo said:
So today brought my first real life encounter with some hardcore TERFs (who I would call that) at a protest my oldest wanted to go to, and I wanted to accompany them as there was a risk of things getting a bit hardcore and I wanted to be there with them.

The pro trans right side easily outnumbered the TERFs, as I expect, and I found the TERFs' attitude interesting. While the trans side was (justifiably) angry, the TERF response was to stand there and smile smugly, like 'Oh. My. God. What do you look like?! You stupid naive little puppies.' (they were distinctly older on average than the trans crowd). Yet you know they won't hestitate to run to the press and go 'Look how much of the public is against us scrappy underdogs, we were so scared by the mob with their masks and yelling' - although the masks were necessitated by draconian protest laws rather than anyone planning to do anything sinister. Of course, none of them wore masks - they were confident the police would be on their side as long as they didn't kick off, they are confident the press and the 'mainstream is on their side (despite them being a minority) and frankly I suppose a lot of them wouldn't wear masks as they're conspiraloons. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

It's reassuring to hear that the shits were outnumbered at that particular event. What I don't understand is where they get the energy. Hate is exhausting. Is it like how introverts and extraverts find socialising to be draining and energising, respectively? Are bigots mentally invigorated by hate? I guess it's obvious when put like that.

Clearly there's wealthy reactionaries funding this shit, but you still need at least some footsoldiers to do the grunt work.
 
NoXion said:
It's reassuring to hear that the shits were outnumbered at that particular event. What I don't understand is where they get the energy. Hate is exhausting. Is it like how introverts and extraverts find socialising to be draining and energising, respectively? Are bigots mentally invigorated by hate? I guess it's obvious when put like that.

Clearly there's wealthy reactionaries funding this shit, but you still need at least some footsoldiers to do the grunt work.
Click to expand...
Wonder is there some kind of adrenaline rush that takes place?

Remember watching a current affairs report on Russian gangs who would lure gay men and some of the members involved seemed to really be stoked about the whole horrible "sport".
 
There's an energising factor to feeling like you're fighting the good fight in the face of The Mainstream (especially when really all the doors are open for you and everything's largely going your way thanks to State and media support, so the stress of actually being up against it isn't there), but I suspect for a fair number of bigots it's also a "gets you out the house with your mates" thing.
 
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So it was an event for Posey Parker/KJK - the good thing is it does look she has driven away all but a really lunatic fringe with her... being an anti-feminist, anti-abortion fascist antics. It seemed to be a crew of the odd gay man who thinks trans is gay erasure, the 'it's all autogynophile pervs', some white blokes who go along with it as part of conspiraloonery, the occasional fash and quite a few old school TERFs who believe it's a plot of the patriarchy to get women to cave into men (though why the hell the patriarchy would need to bother with trans women as attack front, I don't really know).

My oldest had to laugh that one was holding up a 'Your mum's a TERF' sign, when I was there standing right next to them in an anti-TERF protest.

I didn't feel comfortable with all the slogans shouted on 'our' side - I don't, for example, think most of the other side were fascists, but they were certainly being useful idiots, but could whole-heartedly joing with 'Women's rights, trans rights, one struggle, one fight!' which is the heart of it for me. We are all fucked over by the patriarchy. If there were enough resources given to women's needs, there wouldn't need to be this fight about access to 'our' spaces
 
NoXion said:
What I don't understand is where they get the energy. Hate is exhausting.
Click to expand...

Hate allows them to feel something, so they get stuck in a dopamine loop with it.

It looks exhausting from the outside, but once they go beyond a certain point it would take more effort and more energy to stop than to carry on. Not least because stopping would bring with it the realisation that they've been spending their time being needlessly cruel and horrible to people.
 
When I look at what they say and how they say it, I see a mixture of fear and disgust. And it's not hard to see how you can sustain the fear side of it. The more you push against it, the more push back you get, the more powerful the trans ideology seems. The disgust is there as a necessity - autogynophilia etc.

There's also the fact that they're basically winning - at least at the moment. Must feel good. Certainly easier than overthrowing the patriarchy or something.
 
Knotted said:
There's also the fact that they're basically winning - at least at the moment. Must feel good. Certainly easier than overthrowing the patriarchy or something.
Click to expand...
That's a very salient point. Finally an issue for certain radical feminists to get some support from those with power and influence, whatever it costs.

C4 has a documentary on tomorrow which, predictably, is very disappointing and focusing on Kathleen Stock rather than trans people and replaying the utterly unhelpful 'women vs trans women' (I'm leaving our 'cis' there to make a point) argy bargy.

As this very good article points out, what could actually make an impact as an investigative documentary would be one about 'where is the money for this coming from and what else do the people with the money want?'

inews.co.uk

Channel 4's Gender Wars fails both women and trans people – while missing the real story

We’re in a different world now from 2018, but this documentary hasn’t noticed
inews.co.uk inews.co.uk

I think something looking at this and showing what is actually happening in parts of America right now and being clear that it is coming this way could actually shift a lot of people's thinking.
 
I think it may have already arrived (thread):



another thread with more info incuding disinformation from the Telegraph:

 
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Yes, I see already the misleading reports. There was one scuffle which, as far as I can tell, started from a trans rights guy trying to put a trans flag between a bloke trying to film the trans supportive crowd. That was literally the 'violence' for an entire 4+ hours of the thing. What the story doesn't tell you is that the serious fash turned up and started beating their chests at the trans crowd towards the end, at which point, according to Robin (I'd left by then), the counterprotestors walked away together for everyone's safety and ensured everyone got to a travel point in big groups. Posey Parker's lot didn't have to do that, I'll bet.

They have, as I expected, picked up on 'oooooh the masked trans activists!' but that is because a) they are trying not to get recognised by the police or b) filmed and doxxed by transphobes who doubtless would look for anything, eg, evidence someone has attended fetish events (not uncommon in trans communities as it's a safe space for people tp explore that), that they might use to claim 'Oh here, there's proof this person is just a dirty perve'.

The 'Arm Trans Kids' banner was obviously a fucking joke if you look at it but I think on balance was unwise as now all the transphobic press are focusing solely on that. Robin spoke to the person who made it and they said they had actually checked that it wouldn't be breaking any laws (in terms of threatening behaviout I guess) but it's backfired, no pun intended, as of course the transphobes are going to use it to fit their narrative of 'scary violent trans protestors'.
 
cesare said:
Was he a known fash or just a random?
Click to expand...
See teqniq 's post above, apparently known fash.

I couldn't see many obvious candidates for, uhm, fashness, from where I was standing, other than a guy swinging a Union Flag with 'TERF Island' written on it :facepalm: and there did seem to be a suspiciously large volume of men for an event entitled 'Let Women Speak' (ugh, I hate that manipulative name!). The large male attendence does strengthen the sense that women who are not extremist nutters have given up on her.
 
Fwiw I like the arm trans kids slogan. It's obviously tongue in cheek and the anti-trans will find ways of being the victim anyway. I think the kids are on the front line on this often against their parents/guardians* given that puberty/teenage years are so critical to trans youth.

*I wonder if the framework of patriarchy is adequate for the purpose of describing this particular dynamic. The oppression of women is closely related to but not identical with the oppression of children. Certainly the vulgar biological males versus biological females gender critical version of feminism misses the place of children completely, and some versions now don't include any critique of the family but just focus on "sex based rights". I don't know quite where my thinking is heading but I like that children are put back into the equation not as units to be safe guarded (usually against perverts/strangers but not against familiar abuse) but as independent actors in their own right.
 
Cloo said:
That's a very salient point. Finally an issue for certain radical feminists to get some support from those with power and influence, whatever it costs.

C4 has a documentary on tomorrow which, predictably, is very disappointing and focusing on Kathleen Stock rather than trans people and replaying the utterly unhelpful 'women vs trans women' (I'm leaving our 'cis' there to make a point) argy bargy.

As this very good article points out, what could actually make an impact as an investigative documentary would be one about 'where is the money for this coming from and what else do the people with the money want?'

inews.co.uk

Channel 4's Gender Wars fails both women and trans people – while missing the real story

We’re in a different world now from 2018, but this documentary hasn’t noticed
inews.co.uk inews.co.uk

I think something looking at this and showing what is actually happening in parts of America right now and being clear that it is coming this way could actually shift a lot of people's thinking.
Click to expand...

Blurb on the Channel4 website says

Sex and gender are at the heart of one of the most polarising issues of our times. With views from various sides of the debate, is there an end in sight to the conflict?
Click to expand...

I think it's fair to say that framing the debate about trans rights as one relating to sex and gender is precisely what the gender critical movement is about. So that looks like the bias is baked in from the start.
 
It's frustrating having been there but not wanting to say as much on social media to disprove the fucking lies around literally a couple of seconds of shoving; not that I have any worry for myself, I'm of no interest to anyone, but literally I might have to protect my child from these people if they directly associate me with the protest.

Jesus, society, the media and the law should make it harder to be a facist and bigot than it is to publically stand up to them. :mad:
 
I don't think it's accurateto say that Let Women Speak in Oz 'staged a mass Nazi salute' - but some Nazis were there and saluted and absolutely no one from LWS put out any kind of statement, as far as I know, to say that this was unacceptable and they'd prevent these people from ever attending their events again. Which you'd do if, you know, you don't want to court nazis. :hmm:

But of course this is all whataboutery to distract from Strudwick's otherwise very salient points, and it's exactly the same instinct that led every RW media that reported on it to focus on the 'Arm Trans Kids' banner and 'masked' protestors, rather than focus on the fact it was a peaceful protest trying to drown out the hate-filled rhetoric of a woman claiming to speak for women while opposing abortion and saying she's not a feminist.

Robin also pointed out how it was framed as a protest against a feminist group/Let Women Speak, making it look as though trans activism is against feminism, not gobshites like Parker.
 
ouirdeaux said:
Well, you certainly didn't read it, if that's the conclusion you came to.
Click to expand...

I did read it. It's a load of horseshit about how an assortment of bingo-card boogeymen including 'cancel culture' and 'gender ideology' have driven fascists towards the otherwise 100% kosher TERF crusade. And how it's nothing to do with the well-established connections and near-total ideological alignment between GC feminism and the militant anti-feminism of the extreme right.
 
SpookyFrank said:
the well-established connections and near-total ideological alignment between GC feminism and the militant anti-feminism of the extreme right.
Click to expand...
Can you give an example of this near-total ideological alignment? This sounds very strange to me. Possibly because I tend to avoid the topic, but I can't say that I've noticed this.
 
ouirdeaux said:
Can you give an example of this near-total ideological alignment? This sounds very strange to me. Possibly because I tend to avoid the topic, but I can't say that I've noticed this.
Click to expand...

I mean, there are Nazis at the TERF rallies. That's an example.

This whole thread is about the TERFs picking up right-wing homophobic tropes and running with them.
 
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