Transphobes gunning hard for 'paedophilia' angle all of a sudden

[Cloo]

I saw an interesting point made in LinkedIn this morning (happens sometimes) that all the Pride business branding can create this misleading idea that 'Look how powerful the LGBTQs are!' when all those corporates are doing is vague platitudes about 'love is love' - when they need to step up to plate and talk about confronting hatred and transphobia.

There's no doubt in my mind that The Money and Power are unfortunately with the hate people and not the LGBTQ+ community. Money is put behind being nice about LGBTQ+ people, but real money and action is being put into hate.

Nb, re schools etc, neither of my kids, who are at a very woke school in very woke North London, have had any session where a trans person has come in to tell them there are 96 genders, that if if they're gender nonconformist they must be trans, or advising them how to buy hormones online etc.

 

[smokedout]

What I actually did was go for a piss in Whitehall Park. Thus reducing the rather long queue by one.

I've been at events where women frustrated by length of queues ask and usually accepted use the cubicles in men's. That can't happen under this system.

Whatever point you think you are making, in practice system results in slower system for everybody which at a time critical event such as the theatre is daft. Particularly at a show where they literally start plying you with drink at the front door.

Why didn't you use the urinals mentioned in the perfectly well balanced and reasonable piece.

I don't want to massively pursue this derail but I do think it's pertinent because it's one of the ways transphobia manifests as can be seen by the tabloid response. This isn't about trans people - when the Old Vic was attacked for the same thing this was their statement:

The More Loos fundraising campaign was to raise funds towards doubling the loo provision available to women and therefore reduce queue times. Through the building project the number of cubicles available to women situated in blocks that do not contain urinals has increased from 12 to 24 and, subsequently, queue times have been reduced. This includes one new individual gender neutral loo with an enclosed sink for single use.

The reasoning for this can be shown here. It drastically reduces waiting times which is important for theatres with limited space who get a rush on the toilets during the interval. I have no doubt some people don't like it but there seems to be a very clear choice, you either stick to single sex or have shorter waiting times. That's probably quite a difficult call because whatever they do they are going to upset someone. But it's nothing to do with trans people or being woke at all.

The holy grail, however, is to use unisex toilets. In these mixed toilets layouts, the toilet cabins are available for both sexes and optionally complemented with extra urinals for the men. As sharing the toilet capacity across sexes is more efficient, the average waiting time decreases. The available toilet surface can be used most efficiently when an ideally balanced layout with about two cabins per urinal is chosen. In this layout, men are still privileged, but to a much lesser extent than in the basic situation. The overall waiting time is reduced with 63%, which cannot be achieved by any other mixed layout, and definitely not by a separated layout.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Nb, re schools etc, neither of my kids, who are at a very woke school in very woke North London, have had any session where a trans person has come in to tell them there are 96 genders, that if if they're gender nonconformist they must be trans, or advising them how to buy hormones online etc.

It's amazing how this stuff that's obviously completely made up gets so much traction. It's because these weirdos aren't interested in actual information, just excuses to be hateful.

 

[Tanya1982]

I saw an interesting point made in LinkedIn this morning (happens sometimes) that all the Pride business branding can create this misleading idea that 'Look how powerful the LGBTQs are!' when all those corporates are doing is vague platitudes about 'love is love' - when they need to step up to plate and talk about confronting hatred and transphobia.

There's no doubt in my mind that The Money and Power are unfortunately with the hate people and not the LGBTQ+ community. Money is put behind being nice about LGBTQ+ people, but real money and action is being put into hate.

Nb, re schools etc, neither of my kids, who are at a very woke school in very woke North London, have had any session where a trans person has come in to tell them there are 96 genders, that if if they're gender nonconformist they must be trans, or advising them how to buy hormones online etc.

No. It’s never happened at my sons school in Central London either, which if it was to happen anywhere, it would presumably be there - or on your own kids patch in North London.

If it wasn’t for people on the internet and television insisting that schools are now awash with drag acts flashing their sequinned erections at the kids, I would never have heard of it.

None of my friends, a half sibling, or anyone else I know with school age kids has ever said anything about it either.

 

[kenny g]

No. It’s never happened at my sons school in Central London either, which if it was to happen anywhere, it would presumably be there - or on your own kids patch in North London.

If it wasn’t for people on the internet and television insisting that schools are now awash with drag acts flashing their sequinned erections at the kids, I would never have heard of it.

None of my friends, a half sibling, or anyone else I know with school age kids has ever said anything about it either.

In my youngster's School in the depths of West Ham supporting far East London/ South West Essex borderlands pride is a big thing with the head of year speaking of Achilles, Oscar Wilde and Turing ( an eclectic bunch if
ever there was one - although I'm not sure which lesbian role models are introduced) during assemblies and plenty of rainbow flaggery.
I was most impressed by a letter home a couple of years back which took no prisoners in terms of explaining what pride week would entail. I am yet to hear of 93 genders or any drag events. Maybe I should suggest it to the parents association as a fund raiser.

 

[SpookyFrank]

No. It’s never happened at my sons school in Central London either, which if it was to happen anywhere, it would presumably be there - or on your own kids patch in North London.

If it wasn’t for people on the internet and television insisting that schools are now awash with drag acts flashing their sequinned erections at the kids, I would never have heard of it.

None of my friends, a half sibling, or anyone else I know with school age kids has ever said anything about it either.

Most schools struggle to get through all the obligatory stuff on the PSHE curriculum. Given that there's no exams in it and so no league tables, its given the bare minimum amount of time that allows the school to tick the right boxes. You get an hour to talk to them about online safety, a massive issue for kids, and then it's on to something else.

One school I worked at, they crammed a whole term's PSHE content into one day. Put two classes in one room and just ploughed through it, condoms one minute and social capital the next. I had to do the social capital lesson with no planning or resources, so I told the kids how social capital meant that the kids from the posh fee-paying school up the road would get more opportunities than then; not because of talent or character, but because their mums and dads had connections to other rich people. To counter this, they would need to show solidarity and create networks of support for themselves. Then the deputy head turned up and it became clear that this was not the angle they were going for at all. Oh well.

 

[Cloo]

I have actually had to explain to more than one person online 'terrified' about 'all the gender indoctrination' they believe their small child will experience once they start school, that we are taking about maybe one session discussing it in an age appropriate way during part of a PSHE lesson a year, if that. That there's not a daily, weekly or even monthly 'gender lesson'.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

it gets stupider and stupider - i still can't believe people fall for this crap. It's called a gusset and its not exactly new or exclusive to Target.

 

[Tanya1982]

In my youngster's School in the depths of West Ham supporting far East London/ South West Essex borderlands pride is a big thing with the head of year speaking of Achilles, Oscar Wilde and Turing ( an eclectic bunch if
ever there was one - although I'm not sure which lesbian role models are introduced) during assemblies and plenty of rainbow flaggery.
I was most impressed by a letter home a couple of years back which took no prisoners in terms of explaining what pride week would entail. I am yet to hear of 93 genders or any drag events. Maybe I should suggest it to the parents association as a fund raiser.

Yes, they do ‘everyone is of value’ stuff. But they’ve never had drag queens living it up, to my knowledge.

I’ve been really very impressed the whole way through. It’s nothing like I remember school being like - one of my sons friends is gay, and out, and he’s just part of their friendship group - all these straight teens treating this happy kid as one of their own, trying to find him a boyfriend. He doesn’t get his head kicked in or have abuse shouted at him in the streets. I think it’s lovely.

 

[Tanya1982]

it gets stupider and stupider - i still can't believe people fall for this crap. It's called a gusset and its not exactly new or exclusive to Target.
View attachment 375789

Obviously part of the tweet is cut off, but on that it just looks like a ‘Transgender Line of Children’. I thought ‘that’s a funny line for a retailer to try’. The display shelves must be interesting. ‘Which one shall we get Chip?’, ‘Gee Chuck, I don’t know, I think the little one at the back’s kinda cute, put her in the trolley and if we change our minds before checkout we can just leave her in the gun aisle’.

 

[Rob Ray]

Ah wonderful, rulings enforcing punishments if you don't stick to strictly gendered clothing choices. Another victory for feminism.

 

[Sue]

Ah wonderful, rulings enforcing punishments if you don't stick to strictly gendered clothing choices. Another victory for feminism.

Spectacularly unhelpful tbh, even if you are (presumably) being sarcastic.

 

[Rob Ray]

It is sarcastic, yes, mostly born from seeing the endless warnings that trans-exclusionary feminism would end up enabling attacks on "the wrong sort" of women and the reinforcement of gender role policing more generally come to a sickening fruition.

 

[Orang Utan]

It is sarcastic, yes, mostly born from seeing the endless warnings that trans-exclusionary feminism would end up enabling attacks on "the wrong sort" of women and the reinforcement of gender role policing more generally come to a sickening fruition.

And yet many of the worst kind of GCs are male, such as Graham Linehan and that Wings Over Scotland fella.

 

[Rob Ray]

From the anarchist/radical left viewpoint Terfs did pretty much all the early running. The later alliances and excuse-making for flat-out reactionaries on the grounds of "my enemy's enemy" was a particularly embittering period for those of us who got slagged as rape apologists, women-haters, child mutilators etc while warning it wouldn't stop with the targets they were gunning for.

 

[Sue]

It is sarcastic, yes, mostly born from seeing the endless warnings that trans-exclusionary feminism would end up enabling attacks on "the wrong sort" of women and the reinforcement of gender role policing more generally come to a sickening fruition.

Not all or even most feminists IME.

 

[Orang Utan]

From the anarchist/radical left viewpoint Terfs did pretty much all the early running. The later alliances and excuse-making for flat-out reactionaries on the grounds of "my enemy's enemy" was a particularly embittering period for those of us who got slagged as rape apologists, women-haters, child mutilators etc while warning it wouldn't stop with the targets they were gunning for.

You really shouldn’t call these folk TERFs. Many of them are men, so it’s a damaging stereotype that you’re perpetuating

 

[Rob Ray]

Not all or even most feminists IME.

Hence the comment being sarcastic and my subsequent clarification of exactly which people I was talking about.

You really shouldn’t call these folk TERFs. Many of them are men

I've stopped using it generally (and was never a huge fan) but the wave of people who got the ball rolling were doing so explicitly under that banner, and took offence only when it gained negative connotations, therefore the reference.

 

[Sue]

Hence the comment being sarcastic.

Where would we be without men being sarcastic about feminism!

 

[Rob Ray]

I'm not being sarcastic about feminism. I'm being sarcastic about a subset of people who, while explicitly labeling their actions as being driven by feminism, have helped fuel a reactionary backlash reinforcing gender tropes which act against women through their own bigotry. I'll acknowledge the initial post was a bit vague but I've expanded fairly clearly since.

 

[SpookyFrank]

You really shouldn’t call these folk TERFs. Many of them are men, so it’s a damaging stereotype that you’re perpetuating

My logic mostly runs like this:

• They don't like being called TERFs
• But they're arseholes
• So let's call them TERFs

I don't think any sensible person could fail to take the 'RF' part with a massive pinch of salt, on a par with the 'socialism' bit of 'national socialism'.

Gender critical is worse IMO. Because they're not critical at all. They'll blindly guzzle down and regurgitate any old shit so long as it is toxic to trans people.

 

[Clair De Lune]

And yet many of the worst kind of GCs are male, such as Graham Linehan and that Wings Over Scotland fella.

And he's also into trans women. Some of the women he's chased online became victims of obsessive abuse once they turned him down. Not a surprise tbh. We've all met self loathing bisexual or gay men who are violently homophobic eh

 

[Yossarian]

My logic mostly runs like this:

• They don't like being called TERFs
• But they're arseholes
• So let's call them TERFs

I don't think any sensible person could fail to take the 'RF' part with a massive pinch of salt, on a par with the 'socialism' bit of 'national socialism'.

Gender critical is worse IMO. Because they're not critical at all. They'll blindly guzzle down and regurgitate any old shit so long as it is toxic to trans people.

I tend to just stick to 'transphobes' because it's a term broad enough to cover shitheads like Graham Linehan and Ron DeSantis

 

[kenny g]

And he's also into trans women. Some of the women he's chased online became victims of obsessive abuse once they turned him down. Not a surprise tbh. We've all met self loathing bisexual or gay men who are violently homophobic eh

Two horrors who bullied me relentlessly at school are now single sex relationship married.

 

[krtek a houby]

And he's also into trans women. Some of the women he's chased online became victims of obsessive abuse once they turned him down. Not a surprise tbh. We've all met self loathing bisexual or gay men who are violently homophobic eh

Linehan?

 

[Balbi]

Oh wow, this is a thread.

 

[Balbi]

Sorry, that wasn't helpful at all. In the last three months I've been called a "pedo", accused of grooming kids, and we've had two delightful death threats sent to my partners business - because we speak up, obviously, on trans rights because my partner literally is trans. This thing that's going on, that's happening in the U.S in sharpest relief but also with the Govt stopping the Scottish Govt enacting gender recognition legislation that's been in effect in other countries for about a decade now, is all part of the same thing - and that's identifying a small minority, in the trans community, and going after them in a horrendous way.

If you keep a good eye on it, this stuff really broke out into a sustained effort in 2013/2014 - around the time gay marriage was passed in the UK and US. And the organisations behind it are mostly the same as opposed gay marriage, except with gender healthcare and trans people they've succeeded because most people don't know a trans person so they're easy to scaremonger about. Oh, and as you've seen in the states, restricting youth and adult healthcare is a neat wedge into restricting abortion and contraception rights.

We've got the psychotic Christian right in NZ attacking relationships and sexuality education in schools, submitting against bills that do things as radical as 'require the new sports commission to consult with the rainbow community because the legislation uses the word gender' or encourage school boards to be diverse and not just seven old white folks making decisions about an ethnically and socially diverse school population.

I've written about what it was like finding out he was trans: Trans Husband Guy
He wrote about how what most trans people want is just a normal life, being treated like a normal person: Trans Lives Matter (and can be boring)

This is all fucking scary as shit, and it's very hard to see each week bringing more legislation that makes it pretty illegal for my husband to exist in different places around the world - and seeing people advocating for that to happen where we fucking live.

We both pretty much left the board after That Thread about this sort of thing a few years ago, one in which I think we said how fucking scary the rise of overt transphobia was in Britain and elsewhere was because we could see where that sort of thing leads. And it has. It's fucked up man.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Thanks for your insights Balbi. Really sorry that you've had to live through all that shit but glad you're still here.

 

[Knotted]

My logic mostly runs like this:

• They don't like being called TERFs
• But they're arseholes
• So let's call them TERFs

I don't think any sensible person could fail to take the 'RF' part with a massive pinch of salt, on a par with the 'socialism' bit of 'national socialism'.

Gender critical is worse IMO. Because they're not critical at all. They'll blindly guzzle down and regurgitate any old shit so long as it is toxic to trans people.

I would tend to agree but there are trans people who want to keep some sort of dialogue going and I respect that. Also not sure how many are radical feminists these days.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Ever since that horrid thread I've been reading a lot of U75 content through a filter of, yeah but you're a fucking transphobe though. Some posters are so consistently toxic with this stuff that they're on ignore but it's not viable to ignore all the ones who consistently like and post in support of transphobic content or repeat transphobic tropes.

I would tend to agree but there are trans people who want to keep some sort of dialogue going and I respect that. Also not sure how many are radical feminists these days.

Yeah my post was a bit of a joke tbh. I largely don't call these people anything, not to their faces anyway. The really vicious ones would only take anything intended as an insult as a compliment anyway. The, 'they called me a TERF, that's abuse and it lets me off the hook for all the actual abuse I do all the time' stuff is a fun game for them, and not one I'm interested in playing along with.

We can all see who these people are, we don't need a word for it.