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Transphobes gunning hard for 'paedophilia' angle all of a sudden

Ever since that horrid thread I've been reading a lot of U75 content through a filter of, yeah but you're a fucking transphobe though. Some posters are so consistently toxic with this stuff that they're on ignore but it's not viable to ignore all the ones who consistently like and post in support of transphobic content or repeat transphobic tropes.



Yeah my post was a bit of a joke tbh. I largely don't call these people anything, not to their faces anyway. The really vicious ones would only take anything intended as an insult as a compliment anyway. The, 'they called me a TERF, that's abuse and it lets me off the hook for all the actual abuse I do all the time' stuff is a fun game for them, and not one I'm interested in playing along with.

We can all see who these people are, we don't need a word for it.

Admire your reserve. They do need to be calling out on it, each and every time. No matter how long it takes, even if it upsets the vibe.

As has been said a few posts up, we know where transphobia leads. And we also know where keeping silent on it needs.
 
I would tend to agree but there are trans people who want to keep some sort of dialogue going and I respect that. Also not sure how many are radical feminists these days.

I think it's useful to have some understanding of the different tactics and faces of transphobia. The more British (and NZ//Oz, Ireland), more feminist originated (I will caveat that) wing (Forstater, Stock, Joyce etc) has been able to launder its views in a way that's palatable to the guardian, BBC, NYT etc. The intellectual wing of US transphobia has been less successful at that, not many 'centrist' journalists are taking the likes of the IDW and its fellow travellers seriously. At least not in the same way/to the same extent. Raising people like Linehan is a bit irrelevant, they are just followers of this movement, I suppose in a perverse sense 'allies'.

Thing is of course we're talking about a few handfuls of academics and journalists. The vast majority of their feminist contemporaries are just getting on with work in their respective fields. It's properly shit that these people chose to use their interpretation of feminism as a justification and an underpinning of their transphobia, but they did, they did so explicitly, and it's an important part of their success in the cultural spheres they operate in. Like here.
 
Basically, we must never take our eyes off the endgame for these people. They ask 'So what is the TRAs endgame, huh?'. Well, as Balbi says, it's to live their lives in peace and help others understand its OK for people to be who they know they are. Sinister, huh?

The transphobe's game is for trans people to leave off. Stop existing, aka 'Just get counselling and accept their bodies' ('just' is doing a lot of work there) or find God and this will sort it all out. And the money behind the transphobes, whether those transphobes know it or not, is to next do the same for LGB people, get them back in the closet, teach thems to be 'normal'.

And the game parallel/after that is remove women's bodily autonomy, make it easier for men to to control women and shove their realm back into the home and maybe the church if you're that way inclined.

I mean, these fuckers are scared. Women now know, truly know, they don't actually need a bloke or a baby to 'complete' them and now that myth's gone the only thing They have left is compulsion to shove women back in that box, but it starts with the LGBTQ+, which is why we should all be on the same side and not letting these bastards split us up.
 
Ever since that horrid thread I've been reading a lot of U75 content through a filter of, yeah but you're a fucking transphobe though. Some posters are so consistently toxic with this stuff that they're on ignore but it's not viable to ignore all the ones who consistently like and post in support of transphobic content or repeat transphobic tropes.



Yeah my post was a bit of a joke tbh. I largely don't call these people anything, not to their faces anyway. The really vicious ones would only take anything intended as an insult as a compliment anyway. The, 'they called me a TERF, that's abuse and it lets me off the hook for all the actual abuse I do all the time' stuff is a fun game for them, and not one I'm interested in playing along with.

We can all see who these people are, we don't need a word for it.
No we don't , I prefer to use two, disgusting bigot its best to be direct and keep it simple for them :)
 
I think it's useful to have some understanding of the different tactics and faces of transphobia. The more British (and NZ//Oz, Ireland), more feminist originated (I will caveat that) wing (Forstater, Stock, Joyce etc) has been able to launder its views in a way that's palatable to the guardian, BBC, NYT etc. The intellectual wing of US transphobia has been less successful at that, not many 'centrist' journalists are taking the likes of the IDW and its fellow travellers seriously. At least not in the same way/to the same extent. Raising people like Linehan is a bit irrelevant, they are just followers of this movement, I suppose in a perverse sense 'allies'.

Thing is of course we're talking about a few handfuls of academics and journalists. The vast majority of their feminist contemporaries are just getting on with work in their respective fields. It's properly shit that these people chose to use their interpretation of feminism as a justification and an underpinning of their transphobia, but they did, they did so explicitly, and it's an important part of their success in the cultural spheres they operate in. Like here.

From my pov it can't be overstated how much the NZ local anti trans movement relies on both the materials produced by the British anti-trans movement in their various shell forms of lobby groups, and the enthusiastic reportage of it from the British media. I did a deep dive into one of our anti trans groups lobby projects and every single one eventually led back to a British anti trans organisation.

There's also the Women's Declaration International, which used to be the Women's Human Rights Campaign and was started in Britain. The declaration calls for pretty much eliminating trans women specifically from all legislation, which is the cornerstone belief of the movement - that trans women, and trans men, should not and do not exist or deserve protections that others get.

Those folks are important because their US chapter has provided model legislation to many of the states currently banning trans healthcare for young people or just outright, implementing bathroom bans, etc. They're proud of this, they're celebrating it on their website. Which is extremely Human Rights of them.

The thing that stands out is that trans people have always existed, and culturally and societally have gained like 5% more acceptance in the last decade or so. They use gender appropriate toilets and changing rooms already, but not always because they're often afraid of being targeted. They access healthcare but often provision sucks and processes can be drawn out and undignified.

What's happening here is a deliberate attempt to legislate them out of places they have already existed, to deny them the healthcare that was available to them. The UK Govt stopped the Scottish GRA, a law that Ireland have had since 2015 with no issues.

When the anti trans movement go after these laws, they always create a bogeyman trans monster and Never Ever reference the fifteen or so countries which have had this legislation in place for up to a decade now. Surely if the law was so bad for women, they'd have multiple examples from places which have it in place? But they don't, because what they're scaremongering about doesn't happen.

This leads to a demonisation and dehumanisation problem. Anti trans groups will repeatedly highlight individual criminals who have been convicted of sexual assault and use them as the reason why trans people can't update a document, or use a toilet etc.

Except to use that as your example is the equivalent to saying cis women shouldn't be allowed near kids because Rose West and Myra Hindley exist, which is absolutely fucking insane but apparently OK if you're saying it about trans women.

A little bit more critical thinking on almost any anti trans issue tends to undermine it. Oh, you don't want trans women in women's prisons because that's dangerous to cis women, cool but also trans women in cis mens prisons is dangerous, oh and don't all prisons have solid violence and sexual assault issues anyway, on a much larger scale often involving staff and officers. Yeah but that's not fixable by targeting trans people.

The groups which genuinely believe trans people don't really exist, and you can't discriminate against people that aren't real, or that transitioning doesn't help anyone really so it's ok it can be banned - almost always strip trans women and men of any agency in favour of this imagined horror show idea of what being trans is.

To them, having sunk a gallon of the kool aid, trans women are all perverts and paedos based on the entirely unevidenced idea of Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria, (a study where the guy found some parents who didn't like they had trans kids and presented an idea that this was a psychological problem that could be resolved by refusing to let them transition), and autogynephilia which says trans women only transition to be sexually attracted to themselves (which, tbh ?!??). Oh and also the only reason any trans women exist is purely to target women. The anti trans movement want to detransition them to keep women safe, which is to say, to eliminate trans women from existing.

Trans men on the other hand are either self hating dykes who can't admit they're lesbian and so have to transition to resolve their inner conflict with their sexuality, or they've been tricked by the trans medical establishment (which does not exist god damn) into taking hormones and having surgery, which is where you get insane people yelling about "mutilating children" when no surgery doesn't happen until you're a lot older except in extremely specific cases. The anti trans lot want to detransition them so they can be women again, whether or not that's what trans men actually want.

Thing is, if you meet a trans person and get to know them you'll quickly recognise how fucking mad these claims are, and how fucking weird it is to have whole cohorts of journalists and activists and politicians yelling about you, but only talking about you as something completely Othered, abstracted from the reality of your existence to the point that you don't recognise yourself in what they're saying because they're talking about the imagined version of you they're using to take away your social license, your public existence and your right to healthcare.

And that's where the rubber really starts burning. Because the anti trans movement have successfully constructed a cargo cult evil trans lobby, and evil trans scarecrows, and their supporters believe that anyone providing or advocating for trans healthcare or trans people is that evil lobby or any trans person is that evil trans scarecrow.

Except obviously it's spreading to the entire LGBQTI community, despite the efforts of some reactionary LGB Alliance fucking shithead cunts to try and cut trans people out of the community. Target in the states is removing it's Pride displays because staff are being threatened, that's happening right now this week.

The people behind the attempt to cut the trans community out of the rainbow community did so because they were happy to throw trans people to the fucking wolves. Except they were stupid enough to think the right wing and psycho Christians and neo fash would accept that and leave the rest of the community alone. Because they're as dumb as a sack of wet sand.

So now we're in a situation where allowing the trans community to be dehumanised, demonised and denigrated means the entire community is under attack and it's all coming out from British anti-trans lobbyists getting embedded in the establishment and the US Christian right and anti trans 'feminists' joining forces.

And like I said before, when members of the LGBTQi community pointed this out to anti trans people about five or six years ago, they were told that actually this was a Very Feminist issue. Except it was always this, right from the start.
 
Several stops past Barking, this bloke. that is all:


Guess that's going to make it a little harder for the Mail or whoever to push an "anti-trans teacher is the last sane person in a system gone mad" narrative.

Never a good sign when Morgan comes across as the reasonable one.

Morgan pushed a bit further, asking: “You think it’s right to stone people to death?”

To which the former teacher responded: “I think that all sin deserves the death penalty. Jesus died on the cross for sinners.” He then confirmed that he views adultery as a sin.

“All sin is punishable by death,” he added, to which the TV host replied: “That’s nuts, mate”.
 
Sorry, I've been working on this stuff for years to fight it back in NZ so I will go off about it.
You've a right to go off about it I reckon.
Yeah, would obviously rather it wasn't necessary but I really appreciate and am grateful to the other trans people & allies who do put effort into talking about this stuff far more, and far more articulately, than I can (or cba tbh :oops:)
 
Guess that's going to make it a little harder for the Mail or whoever to push an "anti-trans teacher is the last sane person in a system gone mad" narrative.

Never a good sign when Morgan comes across as the reasonable one.

Morgan pushed a bit further, asking: “You think it’s right to stone people to death?”

To which the former teacher responded: “I think that all sin deserves the death penalty. Jesus died on the cross for sinners.” He then confirmed that he views adultery as a sin.

“All sin is punishable by death,” he added, to which the TV host replied: “That’s nuts, mate”.

1684961358247.png
 
Yup, these people have never 'just accidentally misgendered someone' when they go crying to the newspapers . Trans people accept mistakes happen and they know the difference between an honest mistake and someone being a cunt. But of course part of the agenda is 'Boo hoo, we are so scared of those aggressive trans people who are out to wreck our lives if we Just Accidentally Misgender one of them'.

There is always more. Every time, like this teacher being a extremist Christian loon or that cow who went into a Starbucks, got her husband to film the trans manager throwing her out but only after she'd had a tantrum about not being able to use cash and called the staff 'trannies', and who, despite 'Just Accidentally Misgendering' a staff member, is all over social media maliciously misgendering the staff members and sneering at them. But she and her partner are the ones who get a double page spread in the Mail where an (imaginary) neighbour is quoted as saying of the manager that they are 'Scared of saying the wrong thing'.
 
Yup, these people have never 'just accidentally misgendered someone' when they go crying to the newspapers . Trans people accept mistakes happen and they know the difference between an honest mistake and someone being a cunt. But of course part of the agenda is 'Boo hoo, we are so scared of those aggressive trans people who are out to wreck our lives if we Just Accidentally Misgender one of them'.

There is always more. Every time, like this teacher being a extremist Christian loon or that cow who went into a Starbucks, got her husband to film the trans manager throwing her out but only after she'd had a tantrum about not being able to use cash and called the staff 'trannies', and who, despite 'Just Accidentally Misgendering' a staff member, is all over social media maliciously misgendering the staff members and sneering at them. But she and her partner are the ones who get a double page spread in the Mail where an (imaginary) neighbour is quoted as saying of the manager that they are 'Scared of saying the wrong thing'.
👋:thumbs:
 
Guess that's going to make it a little harder for the Mail or whoever to push an "anti-trans teacher is the last sane person in a system gone mad" narrative.

Never a good sign when Morgan comes across as the reasonable one.

Morgan pushed a bit further, asking: “You think it’s right to stone people to death?”

To which the former teacher responded: “I think that all sin deserves the death penalty. Jesus died on the cross for sinners.” He then confirmed that he views adultery as a sin.

“All sin is punishable by death,” he added, to which the TV host replied: “That’s nuts, mate”.
not only batshit but thick too. Aren’t we all supposed to be sinners? So we should be all be killed. That would take some organisation. How will the last person die? :D
 
To which the former teacher responded: “I think that all sin deserves the death penalty. Jesus died on the cross for sinners.” He then confirmed that he views adultery as a sin.

“All sin is punishable by death,” he added, to which the TV host replied: “That’s nuts, mate”.

Most of us probably didn't have to give him massive prime time exposure just to find out that he's nuts. He'll be a hero now to the most extreme religious nutters out there. If only they'd listened to the children he "taught".
 
They did the same with that Irish guy a few months ago, the teacher. By the time the story appeared in UK newspapers Irish people had for some days been providing context about the case, his family and such, but the British papers just took the transphobic headline anyway
 
Well, the British seem to love these 'injustices', you get the same thing with 'I was fired JUST for asking a colleague out for a date...' (conventially leaving out the harrassment bit), 'I lost custody of my kids JUST because 7 year old had a bruised knee' (which started a discussion where they disclosed abuse). Half the time the stories don't even hide the actual details, and it's later in the article but they know thw headline will leave people muttering/posting on social media about how 'Now you can't talk to women/Now social services are taking kids away for nothing/Now you can't make a mistake about gender without being fired' etc etc
 
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They did the same with that Irish guy a few months ago, the teacher. By the time the story appeared in UK newspapers Irish people had for some days been providing context about the case, his family and such, but the British papers just took the transphobic headline anyway
Ah, the delightful Enoch Burke?

 
This would be funny in a parellel universe but, its not is it?
What else what can we not discuss without participating in dehumanisation.
I wasn't sure how to reply to this at the time and I'm still not sure what you mean tbh. I'm most certainly not trying to put words into your mouth at all. But it kinda stuck with me cos it's not 'what else can we not discuss without participating in dehumanisation', but who (can we not discuss) .right? And the answer is...nobody. I don't see any class or demographic or minority that we here on urban feel able to discuss in the dehumanising way that trans people are discussed.
 
Dylan Mulvaney said something I thought very true when commenting on all the BS she went through after the Bud Light etc thing that 'Dehumanising never helps anyone' and it is true all round... I don't actually want to dehumanise facists and transphobes because that's an easy way out 'Oh, they're just inhuman'. Sadly, they very much are human which makes it all much more complicated.
 
Dylan Mulvaney said something I thought very true when commenting on all the BS she went through after the Bud Light etc thing that 'Dehumanising never helps anyone' and it is true all round... I don't actually want to dehumanise facists and transphobes because that's an easy way out 'Oh, they're just inhuman'. Sadly, they very much are human which makes it all much more complicated.

I think the important thing is to put a wedge between the hardliners and their casual followers who aren't necessarily fully on board with them.
I am not sure that is necessarily best achieved by arguing with the hardliners, I tend to prefer a no platform approach
 
From my pov it can't be overstated how much the NZ local anti trans movement relies on both the materials produced by the British anti-trans movement in their various shell forms of lobby groups, and the enthusiastic reportage of it from the British media. I did a deep dive into one of our anti trans groups lobby projects and every single one eventually led back to a British anti trans organisation.

There's also the Women's Declaration International, which used to be the Women's Human Rights Campaign and was started in Britain. The declaration calls for pretty much eliminating trans women specifically from all legislation, which is the cornerstone belief of the movement - that trans women, and trans men, should not and do not exist or deserve protections that others get.

Those folks are important because their US chapter has provided model legislation to many of the states currently banning trans healthcare for young people or just outright, implementing bathroom bans, etc. They're proud of this, they're celebrating it on their website. Which is extremely Human Rights of them.

The thing that stands out is that trans people have always existed, and culturally and societally have gained like 5% more acceptance in the last decade or so. They use gender appropriate toilets and changing rooms already, but not always because they're often afraid of being targeted. They access healthcare but often provision sucks and processes can be drawn out and undignified.

What's happening here is a deliberate attempt to legislate them out of places they have already existed, to deny them the healthcare that was available to them. The UK Govt stopped the Scottish GRA, a law that Ireland have had since 2015 with no issues.

When the anti trans movement go after these laws, they always create a bogeyman trans monster and Never Ever reference the fifteen or so countries which have had this legislation in place for up to a decade now. Surely if the law was so bad for women, they'd have multiple examples from places which have it in place? But they don't, because what they're scaremongering about doesn't happen.

This leads to a demonisation and dehumanisation problem. Anti trans groups will repeatedly highlight individual criminals who have been convicted of sexual assault and use them as the reason why trans people can't update a document, or use a toilet etc.

Except to use that as your example is the equivalent to saying cis women shouldn't be allowed near kids because Rose West and Myra Hindley exist, which is absolutely fucking insane but apparently OK if you're saying it about trans women.

A little bit more critical thinking on almost any anti trans issue tends to undermine it. Oh, you don't want trans women in women's prisons because that's dangerous to cis women, cool but also trans women in cis mens prisons is dangerous, oh and don't all prisons have solid violence and sexual assault issues anyway, on a much larger scale often involving staff and officers. Yeah but that's not fixable by targeting trans people.

The groups which genuinely believe trans people don't really exist, and you can't discriminate against people that aren't real, or that transitioning doesn't help anyone really so it's ok it can be banned - almost always strip trans women and men of any agency in favour of this imagined horror show idea of what being trans is.

To them, having sunk a gallon of the kool aid, trans women are all perverts and paedos based on the entirely unevidenced idea of Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria, (a study where the guy found some parents who didn't like they had trans kids and presented an idea that this was a psychological problem that could be resolved by refusing to let them transition), and autogynephilia which says trans women only transition to be sexually attracted to themselves (which, tbh ?!??). Oh and also the only reason any trans women exist is purely to target women. The anti trans movement want to detransition them to keep women safe, which is to say, to eliminate trans women from existing.

Trans men on the other hand are either self hating dykes who can't admit they're lesbian and so have to transition to resolve their inner conflict with their sexuality, or they've been tricked by the trans medical establishment (which does not exist god damn) into taking hormones and having surgery, which is where you get insane people yelling about "mutilating children" when no surgery doesn't happen until you're a lot older except in extremely specific cases. The anti trans lot want to detransition them so they can be women again, whether or not that's what trans men actually want.

Thing is, if you meet a trans person and get to know them you'll quickly recognise how fucking mad these claims are, and how fucking weird it is to have whole cohorts of journalists and activists and politicians yelling about you, but only talking about you as something completely Othered, abstracted from the reality of your existence to the point that you don't recognise yourself in what they're saying because they're talking about the imagined version of you they're using to take away your social license, your public existence and your right to healthcare.

And that's where the rubber really starts burning. Because the anti trans movement have successfully constructed a cargo cult evil trans lobby, and evil trans scarecrows, and their supporters believe that anyone providing or advocating for trans healthcare or trans people is that evil lobby or any trans person is that evil trans scarecrow.

Except obviously it's spreading to the entire LGBQTI community, despite the efforts of some reactionary LGB Alliance fucking shithead cunts to try and cut trans people out of the community. Target in the states is removing it's Pride displays because staff are being threatened, that's happening right now this week.

The people behind the attempt to cut the trans community out of the rainbow community did so because they were happy to throw trans people to the fucking wolves. Except they were stupid enough to think the right wing and psycho Christians and neo fash would accept that and leave the rest of the community alone. Because they're as dumb as a sack of wet sand.

So now we're in a situation where allowing the trans community to be dehumanised, demonised and denigrated means the entire community is under attack and it's all coming out from British anti-trans lobbyists getting embedded in the establishment and the US Christian right and anti trans 'feminists' joining forces.

And like I said before, when members of the LGBTQi community pointed this out to anti trans people about five or six years ago, they were told that actually this was a Very Feminist issue. Except it was always this, right from the start.
Thanks for your post, a lot of useful points I'll keep in mind should I ever have the energy to wholeheartedly participate in this conversation again.
 
(I mean I'm lacking in energy in general for other reasons, not specifically on this issue!)

I knew what you meant and tbh if you had meant it about this issue I (and I identify as non-binary) would completely get it, it's fucking exhausting and feels like banging your head against a fucking brick wall just to argue for the right to be left alone.

A lot of the world seems like a horrible unfriendly and exhausting place right now.
 
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