Transphobes gunning hard for 'paedophilia' angle all of a sudden

[ouirdeaux]

I didn't say that. One of the main reasons I avoid the topic is that anything that is said is likely to be jumped on by someone on either side and misinterpreted. There are times when I think large sections of the population have gone doolally.

 

[cesare]

I spent about 15 minutes going down that JKR tweet rabbit hole. Quite shocking.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

near-total ideological alignment between GC feminism and the militant anti-feminism of the extreme right.

Don't understand this. How can there be ideological alignment between feminism and anti-feminism?

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

Don't understand this. How can there be ideological alignment between feminism and anti-feminism?

so you think anti trans activism is feminism?

 

[ElizabethofYork]

so you think anti trans activism is feminism?

???

 

[cesare]

Don't understand this. How can there be ideological alignment between feminism and anti-feminism?

I think SpookyFrank meant specifically GC feminism (edit: which is also referred to as anti trans activism) not feminism generally.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

???

its a pretty simple question.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Don't understand this. How can there be ideological alignment between feminism and anti-feminism?

Take a look at the funding.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I think SpookyFrank meant specifically GC feminism (edit: which is also referred to as anti trans activism) not feminism generally.

It's not hard to figure out: the enemy of my enemy...

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

We can all see what's happening.

 

[Orang Utan]

Can you give an example of this near-total ideological alignment? This sounds very strange to me. Possibly because I tend to avoid the topic, but I can't say that I've noticed this.

I went to a counter demo in Leeds last year to support a Drag Queen Story Time and I’d say 9/10 of the bigots who were protesting against it were racist and fascist activists - the leadership of Patriotic Alternative and assorted cronies organised it.

 

[nino_savatte]

Don't understand this. How can there be ideological alignment between feminism and anti-feminism?

In the same way that many US rad fems and Christian fundies were ideologically-aligned in the early 1980s in their opposition to pornography. This is what partly inspired Margaret Attwood to write The Handmaid's Tale.

 

[Dystopiary]

I've seen this said a lot lately and I agree:

If you're at a demo and there's a nazi flag, and the person holding that flag isn't getting kicked out... you're at a nazi rally.

This was a whole bunch of people who're openly nazi, sieg-heiling at one of her events:

Victoria to ban Nazi salute after ‘disgusting’ scenes at anti-trans protest

And there was the thing with inviting men with guns into women's toilets. And the stuff about ignoring abortion rights to focus on trans people. "Women's rights" my arse.

Still JK Rowling and others support Kellie-Jay Keen/Posie Parker. And then people laud JKR for doing so.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I've seen this said a lot lately and I agree:

If you're at a demo and there's a nazi flag, and the person holding that flag isn't getting kicked out... you're at a nazi rally.

This was a whole bunch of people who're openly nazi, sieg-heiling at one of her events:

Victoria to ban Nazi salute after ‘disgusting’ scenes at anti-trans protest

And there was the thing with inviting men with guns into women's toilets. And the stuff about ignoring abortion rights to focus on trans people. "Women's rights" my arse.

Still JK Rowling and others support Kellie-Jay Keen/Posie Parker. And then people laud JKR for doing so.

 

[Santino]

If you're at a demo and there's a nazi flag, and the person holding that flag isn't getting kicked out... you're at a nazi rally.

Purely in the interests of pedantry, that's not strictly true. How many people are physically unequipped to confront a group of Nazis?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Purely in the interests of pedantry, that's not strictly true. How many people are physically unequipped to confront a group of Nazis?

I a demo with hundreds if not thousands the probability is quite a few.

 

[Epona]

That is not a reasonable excuse for standing next to them and chanting the same slogans against a marginalised group of society.

 

[Dystopiary]

Purely in the interests of pedantry, that's not strictly true. How many people are physically unequipped to confront a group of Nazis?

They've not been made unwelcome. She hasn't denounced them after the fact. This is someone who's quite comfortable asking men who "carry" to do her bidding in other circumstances.

 

[Santino]

They've not been made unwelcome. She hasn't denounced them after the fact. This is someone who's quite comfortable asking men who "carry" to do her bidding in other circumstances.

I don't want to defend her in particular, I just wanted to point out that you can't expect everyone to throw themselves at fascists.

 

[Dystopiary]

I don't want to defend her in particular, I just wanted to point out that you can't expect everyone to throw themselves at fascists.

I don't. They could be ostracised though. Assuming they're a minority.

 

[Cloo]

They are showing no signs of being concerned or upset or worried about how it will look that Nazis are on their side. Which suggests they're happy for them to be there to put the frightners on 'woke snowflakes'. My belief on Saturday, as I said, was that not all that many people there were really facists but all of them were at least useful idiots who the presence of fascists made feel safer, and that's a bad sign.

Nobody's expecting them to see the facists off physically if they weren't comfortable but it wouldn't be hard to put out, as I suggest previously, a statement saying how horrified you are they were there, that it's inappropriate and that you don't wish to associate with them. Even if that was a lie, you'd have thought they'd do that to try to protect their image so it's disturbing they are so comfortable with it they don't even feel they have to put on a front of finding this wrong.

 

[Dystopiary]

(CW: sexual harassment and assault)

The Nick Cohen thread being updated today reminded me - prominent GC journalists on twitter repost his articles and tweets in spite of the many allegations of sexual assault and harassment against him by numerous women. I can't understate this: it would be impossible to have been working in mainstream journalism for years and not know about them, and about his reputation at the Guardian, where he was known as "the Octopus." But Cohen is anti-trans.

I'm not saying they should feel compelled to speak out against his alleged behaviour. Rather, that prominent journalists who claim to be all about protecting women are prepared to ignore all of it in order to signal-boost anti-trans stuff is very telling imo.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

(CW: sexual harassment and assault)

The Nick Cohen thread being updated today reminded me - prominent GC journalists on twitter repost his articles and tweets in spite of the many allegations of sexual assault and harassment against him by numerous women. I can't understate this: it would be impossible to have been working in mainstream journalism for years and not know about them, and about his reputation at the Guardian, where he was known as "the Octopus." But Cohen is anti-trans.

I'm not saying they should feel compelled to speak out against his alleged behaviour. Rather, that prominent journalists who claim to be all about protecting women are prepared to ignore all of it in order to signal-boost anti-trans stuff is very telling imo.

Yep...as said above enemy of enemy...

 

[Clair De Lune]

I don't want to defend her in particular, I just wanted to point out that you can't expect everyone to throw themselves at fascists.

There's a bit of a difference between throwing yourself at a fascist and distancing yourself from them though.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

There's a bit of a difference between throwing yourself at a fascist and distancing yourself from them though.

And addressing their presence publicly, which has been repeatedly not done.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

Yep...as said above enemy of enemy...

at this point it needs clarifying who precisely the enemy is. Trans people weren't the enemy until they started campaigning against us. And i thought "abusive men" were the enemy. Seems not. So who, precisely, is the enemy at this point?

I still don't consider myself the enemy of any of these anti trans campaigners. If they gave up their attacks on trans people's right to exist then I wouldn't give a shit what they think.

 

[smokedout]

I don't want to defend her in particular, I just wanted to point out that you can't expect everyone to throw themselves at fascists.

Wouldn't it have been a transformative moment if when they turned up Posie had gone on the mic and said to the trans protesters I know we have our differences but shall we work together to kick these Nazis out of this demo?

She didn't. She didn't say anything, and whilst she has said she doesn't agree with them she has never asked them not to come. In fact she has repeatedly courted far right and alt right figures. She gave a platform to a prominent Proud Boys member on her tour in the US and used a far right militia linked group for security on one occassion. She's appeared on a host of far right and alt right podcasts and other media. People in her circle such as Venice Allen have been attending the Turning Point Drag Queen demos in Honor Oak, only for Turning Point to attend Posie's demos the next day.

I think she wants them there and so do many other Gender Criticals. Both groups support the elimination of 'transgenderism'. Many of Posie's supporters have promoted antisemitic trans-humanist conspiracy theories as well as being anti-vaxxers. Both the far right and gender critical movement have adopted the strategy of smearing Trans and Queer people as paedophiles and a threat to children. There are many in the GC movement who support traditional gender roles and oppose reproductive healthcare to a greater or lesser degree including Posie who is campaigning against Gillick competence. These incidentally are what JKR is claiming are solid left wing/feminist issues.

On many issues Posie's cult and the far right are in alignment and they share common ground on others. And it's worth remembering she got de-platformed by gender critical group Woman's Place of all people for making racist and islamophobic comments. It wouldn't suprise me at all if she has aspirations to become some populist Marie Le Pen type figure and the support of people like JKR will help her get there.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Wouldn't it have been a transformative moment if when they turned up Posie had gone on the mic and said to the trans protesters I know we have our differences but shall we work together to kick these Nazis out of this demo?

She didn't. She didn't say anything, and whilst she has said she doesn't agree with them she has never asked them not to come. In fact she has repeatedly courted far right and alt right figures. She gave a platform to a prominent Proud Boys member on her tour in the US and used a far right militia linked group for security on one occassion. She's appeared on a host of far right and alt right podcasts and other media. People in her circle such as Venice Allen have been attending the Turning Point Drag Queen demos in Honor Oak, only for Turning Point to attend Posie's demos the next day.

I think she wants them there and so do many other Gender Criticals. Both groups support the elimination of 'transgenderism'. Many of Posie's supporters have promoted antisemitic trans-humanist conspiracy theories as well as being anti-vaxxers. Both the far right and gender critical movement have adopted the strategy of smearing Trans and Queer people as paedophiles and a threat to children. There are many in the GC movement who support traditional gender roles and oppose reproductive healthcare to a greater or lesser degree including Posie who is campaigning against Gillick competence. These incidentally are what JKR is claiming are solid left wing/feminist issues.

On many issues Posie's cult and the far right are in alignment and they share common ground on others. And it's worth remembering she got de-platformed by gender critical group Woman's Place of all people for making racist and islamophobic comments. It wouldn't suprise me at all if she has aspirations to become some populist Marie Le Pen type figure and the support of people like JKR will help her get there.

 

[Tanya1982]

A very moving article I read the other day, as relevant here as anywhere…

My WW2 veteran uncle's last words to me

We are losing our direct connection to the Greatest Generation — and it matters now more than ever

www.salon.com

This is why I cherish my great-uncle's parting advice. They are the words not just of a man, but of an entire generation. Politics has plenty of room for socialists, liberals, moderates, conservatives, libertarians and all other non-hateful ideologies. But when it comes to the hate-based ideologies of the far right, the only appropriate attitude is absolute opposition. Why? To quote Uncle Merrill, "Nazis are bastards." While I can not advocate killing Nazis, no society that can call itself civilized will long endure unless we forcefully oppose their ideas.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I think SpookyFrank meant specifically GC feminism (edit: which is also referred to as anti trans activism) not feminism generally.

I did. Which is why I said exactly that. ElizabethofYork can read and knows this full well.

Maybe the self-described GC feminists should be the ones asking themselves why their ideology fits in so nicely with anti-feminist ideologies such as christian fundamentalism and outright fascism.