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Transphobes gunning hard for 'paedophilia' angle all of a sudden

vanya said:
For over 40 years Terfs and the right have been accusing trans women of being potential rapists who are a threat to women. Around 2017 Stonewall started pushing the idea of self id for gender recognition certificate. This meant that Roy the rapist could just ruck up and get a gender recognition certificate without a diagnosis of gender dsyphoria to prove that they were trans and without the two year real life rest to show that they were serious about it. If they were caught they would be able to go to a women’s prison. This has really happened. Look at the case of Karen White (Guardian 11/10/2018) who was admitted to a woman’s prison when the prison service introduced a policy of self ID.

I cannot think of a better way of inciting hatred against trans women then allowing rapists to exploit the system to get a gender recognition certificates. This frightens the hell out of me. I have never known so much hatred towards trans people on social or main stream media since the idea of self ID came in. 10 years ago this hardly happened as the majority of people had no interest in trans issues.

There are also people who are confused or have mental health problems who mistakenly think that they have gender dsyphoria, and could be making the biggest mistake of their lives if they go on to have hormones and the op. The last thing they need is for the law to confirm them in their delusion by giving them a gender recognition certificate.. This is why they need to see a doctor to get a medical diagnosis to that they can be directed towards the therapy or treatment they need.

The risk of this happening with children is much greater as they are still developing and do not understand themselves. Many children go through a phase of identifying with the opposite gender and then grow out of it. And yet woke ideology wants children to be able to get the op. This is likely to get a lot of them to regretting what they have done. If children end up mutilating themselves then a lot of people will get very angry about this. Again I can’t think of a better way of inciting hatred against trans people. It will also lead to a backlash against the whole idea of gender reassignment operations. I want these operations be available to people who need them. But in order for this to happen we need to have reasonable safeguards in place to try to stop people who mistakenly think they are trans from having the operation. This is even more important with children. No one under 18 should be having this op.
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Fucking hell.

We need safeguards in place to protect people from ignorant hateful shite like this.

All the far right talking points in your rant.
 
Never understood why anyone would think that a rapist would have to go through the process of changing gender if they wanted to rape someone.

It's clickbait divisive stuff pure and simple, and doesn't stand up to any logical scrutiny (even less than 30 seconds of scrutiny is sufficient)
 


This was from the Let Women Speak event that took place in Birmingam over the weekend. Note the cheers and how unfazed Posie Parker is as she adjusts the microphone. Whilst this is more mask off than usual this type of rhetoric is not uncommon at these rallies. This is what the Gender Critical movement is now, it's what most of them either believe themselves or are happy to stand alongside. JK Rowling and a host of other supposed moderates have all voiced support for these events. Growing numbers of far right figures have been seen in attendence.

I haven't been to any of the counter protests yet. I'm not sure it's been the right strategy, although they are probably inevitable and I don't blame anyone for going. But what the fuck are trans people supposed to do when even mild jostling is used by establishment figures to call on the police to treat trans activists as terrorists? Should trans and queer people just accept that large mobs are going to rock up in our local city square and start making inflammatory speeches accusing us of being paedophiles and groomers? Where is that going to lead?

I'm really out of ideas. I'd like to hear some. But I would urge anyone coming across people claiming this is just about defending women's rights, or puzzling over what JK Rowling has said that is transphobic to point out what is actually going on because there is no objectivity at all in the way any of this is being reported.
 
Serge Forward said:
Kinnell. That speaker is completely un-fucking-hinged. I suppose bigoted bonkers shit is the 'new normal' though.
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It's absolutely not normal. It just gets given a wildly disproportionate platform thanks to the relentless bullshit stories about trans issues in the gutter press and, perhaps more importantly, the tacit support of the much more numerous reasonable, respectable transphobes ie. those who have enough social tact to soft-pedal their bigotry in public.
 
I find this all extremely painful.
This thread has been really valuable, despite, and maybe because of, the trauma it exposes in terms of the real consequences of words. How dare people build their own political identity around belittling and denying other people's sense of self and worth. Solidarity.
 
You know what, I went into a ladies toilet on Friday where there was a cis man fixing the plumbing, and nothing bad happened to me.
We nodded, he asked if I wanted him to leave (he was working in 1 cubicle, there were 2 others), I said nah it's fine
I certainly wouldn't be scared by a trans person in the same toilet facilities as me this entire thing is completely ridiculous

I really don't understand where this toilet narrative came from but it is extremely damaging and doesn't at all reflect on real life - it just seems to have been conjured up for the sake of prejudice
 
Epona said:
I mean seriously the whole toilet thing is proper fucking whoop whoop make an issue out of nothing proper bonkers.
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Went and saw Caberet (thoroughly recommend). They have gender nuetralled the toilets. THAT is is proper bonkers...Old existing building so all doing is reducing amount of toilets. Entire life been aware women end up queuing longer for public loos due to it being cubicals. Getting rid of urinals and making everyone queue for cubicals is nuts. (Different but related toilets issue)
 
gosub said:
Went and saw Caberet (thoroughly recommend). They have gender nuetralled the toilets. THAT is is proper bonkers...Old existing building so all doing is reducing amount of toilets. Entire life been aware women end up queuing longer for public loos due to it being cubicals. Getting rid of urinals and making everyone queue for cubicals is nuts. (Different but related toilets issue)
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The toilet in my home is not gendered! :D

Edit: anyway I feel I may have been party to dragging this a bit off topic, apologies
 
gosub said:
Went and saw Caberet (thoroughly recommend). They have gender nuetralled the toilets. THAT is is proper bonkers...Old existing building so all doing is reducing amount of toilets. Entire life been aware women end up queuing longer for public loos due to it being cubicals. Getting rid of urinals and making everyone queue for cubicals is nuts. (Different but related toilets issue)
Click to expand...

Doesn't have to be like that though does it. one room, one lot of plumbing. Replace the number of urinals with same of cubicles at least. Costs more granted. As a blind cis bloke I often use a cubicle in the pub cos half the time I can't tell if the urinal is free and can't face the potential embarrassment of walking into someone pissing. :D
 
Regarding the prospect of sexual abuse in public toilets, I remember well the ubiquitous experience of going into public bogs as a kid and reading graffiti on the cubicle walls about how you only had to ring this number to have this or that very specific and graphic sex act done to you. Always made me think there were clearly people who spent their time hanging around those bogs looking to do this stuff with strangers. There was never a disclaimer stipulating that kids weren't invited, or that consent was a priority. Just exposing kids to that kind of language in a public place where they're inherently vulnerable constitutes abuse IMO.

The existence of creepy men is the problem, not which gendered or non-gendered space they do their creepy stuff in. Men and boys are vulnerable too. And of course illicit sex acts in anonymous public places are part of the legacy of gay sex being illegal and dangerous to do in private or without anonymity. Which arose from the same culture of fear and ignorance which is now being built up around trans people. Make something people naturally do transgressive, you'll get more transgression. Make people ashamed, and shameful things will happen.

Gender segregation has never prevented abuse before. It's borderline insane to state that reinforcing it will make anyone safe now. It will likely do the exact opposite. Trans people will be the first, but far from the only victims of it.
 
vanya said:
For over 40 years Terfs and the right have been accusing trans women of being potential rapists who are a threat to women. Around 2017 Stonewall started pushing the idea of self id for gender recognition certificate. This meant that Roy the rapist could just ruck up and get a gender recognition certificate without a diagnosis of gender dsyphoria to prove that they were trans and without the two year real life rest to show that they were serious about it. If they were caught they would be able to go to a women’s prison. This has really happened. Look at the case of Karen White (Guardian 11/10/2018) who was admitted to a woman’s prison when the prison service introduced a policy of self ID.

I cannot think of a better way of inciting hatred against trans women then allowing rapists to exploit the system to get a gender recognition certificates. This frightens the hell out of me. I have never known so much hatred towards trans people on social or main stream media since the idea of self ID came in. 10 years ago this hardly happened as the majority of people had no interest in trans issues.

There are also people who are confused or have mental health problems who mistakenly think that they have gender dsyphoria, and could be making the biggest mistake of their lives if they go on to have hormones and the op. The last thing they need is for the law to confirm them in their delusion by giving them a gender recognition certificate.. This is why they need to see a doctor to get a medical diagnosis to that they can be directed towards the therapy or treatment they need.

The risk of this happening with children is much greater as they are still developing and do not understand themselves. Many children go through a phase of identifying with the opposite gender and then grow out of it. And yet woke ideology wants children to be able to get the op. This is likely to get a lot of them to regretting what they have done. If children end up mutilating themselves then a lot of people will get very angry about this. Again I can’t think of a better way of inciting hatred against trans people. It will also lead to a backlash against the whole idea of gender reassignment operations. I want these operations be available to people who need them. But in order for this to happen we need to have reasonable safeguards in place to try to stop people who mistakenly think they are trans from having the operation. This is even more important with children. No one under 18 should be having this op.
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Have a fucking word with yourself
 
SpookyFrank said:
This is how we defeat misogyny, apparently.

Still silence on here from our in-house GC types, who I can only hope are looking at their shoes and thinking about how and why they've let a fascist ideology lead them by the nose.
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I was thinking also about Posie Parker literally asking men to take guns into women's toilets.

I won't post the clip but it's out there. I'll post what she said with spoilers.

“I’m talking about you dads, who maybe carry – I think that’s what you say, I’m so down with the American lingo.

Maybe you carry, maybe you don’t. Maybe you consider yourself a protector of women, maybe you’re that sort of man.

Maybe you have a daughter or a mother, or a wife, maybe you have a sister. Maybe you have friends, maybe you just think women are human and you don’t need any absolute connection with them to feel compelled to protect us.

I think you should start using women’s toilets, men.”

She happily associates with the far right.

She's said that restriction to abortion is a price worth paying in the fight against trans people.

She's dangerous, but not one prominent gender-critical person has denounced her or any of the shit things she's said or done afaict.
 
xenon said:
Doesn't have to be like that though does it. one room, one lot of plumbing. Replace the number of urinals with same of cubicles at least. Costs more granted. As a blind cis bloke I often use a cubicle in the pub cos half the time I can't tell if the urinal is free and can't face the potential embarrassment of walking into someone pissing. :D
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I saw perfect gender neutral toilets, of all places, in Perranporth in Cornwall in 2015. The main area was all individual stalls and then there was another area accessible by an internal door that took you to the urinals. Everyone had to walk through the same main door, and the gender neutral area, but then men who wanted to pee standing up could go through to the urinals. No queues, no issues, worked perfectly. And yet I rarely if ever see anyone talking about creating public toilets based on this model.

Anyway, the reason they created a gender neutral toilet in Perranporth, they said, was costs. Nothing to do with trans people. Maybe that's why nobody was upset about it.
 
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Jennaonthebeach said:
I saw perfect gender neutral toilets, off all places, in Perranporth in Cornwall in 2015. The main area was all individual stalls and then there was another area accessible by an internal door that took you to the urinals. Everyone had to walk through the same main door, and the gender neutral area, but then men who wanted to pee standing up could go through to the urinals. No queues, no issues, worked perfectly. And yet I rarely if ever see anyone talking about creating public toilets based on this model.

Anyway, the reason they created a gender neutral toilet in Perranporth, they said, was costs. Nothing to do with trans people. Maybe that's why nobody was upset about it.
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We had a London Urb meet recently in a pub where all the loos were... just unisex loos, for anyone to use
(If you want to be added to the urban London event tagging list just let me know, I don't know where you are based or whether it would be practical for you, but we'd love to have you join us if you can)
 
Epona said:
We had a London Urb meet recently in a pub where all the loos were... just unisex loos, for anyone to use
(If you want to be added to the urban London event tagging list just let me know, I don't know where you are based or whether it would be practical for you, but we'd love to have you join us if you can)
Click to expand...
Thanks. It just might happen. I'm down in Dover but a trip to London is not beyond the realms of possibilities. :)
 
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