Tory UK EU Exit Referendum

[treelover]

Ha, Ha, just because I don't agree with some ideas of the un-reconstructed left I am a Tory or even a liberal democratic(Hocus)

I certainly am proud I was never a member of the SWP for example.

 

[Pickman's model]

Ha, Ha, just because I don't agree with some ideas of the un-reconstructed left I am a Tory or even a liberal democratic(Hocus)

I certainly am proud I was never a member of the SWP for example.

no, it has nothing to do with you not agreeing with 'some ideas of the un-reconstructed left'.

 

[belboid]

Ha, Ha, just because I don't agree with some ideas of the un-reconstructed left I am a Tory or even a liberal democratic(Hocus)

I certainly am proud I was never a member of the SWP for example.

Day 1: declare your 'devastation' at the murder of Jo Cox

Day 2: repeat the rationale of her killer

Maybe that's why

 

[Pickman's model]

I certainly am proud I was never a member of the SWP for example.

to their credit they wouldn't have had you

 

[treelover]

Disgusting smears, this board is becoming rank

some of its posters anyway.

 

[belboid]

They're not smears if they're true

 

[Pickman's model]

Disgusting smears, this board is becoming rank

some of its posters anyway.

so do tell me why it's always the left - liberal and otherwise - for which you reserve your sneers

 

[treelover]

Because they could do so so much more and begin to resemble a real opposition

anyway, out of here for now.

 

[Pickman's model]

Because they could do so so much more and begin to resemble a real opposition

anyway, out of here for now.

good. and close the door after you.

 

[hot air baboon]

...and have you seen the size of his frickin' gut....

 

[Coolfonz]

plenty of new charities for refugees, no problem with that, but you seem to have one?

putting the national back in socialist eh?

 

[Coolfonz]

Disgusting smears, this board is becoming rank

some of its posters anyway.

its great how right wing people always see themselves as victims. today if anyone mentions the fact the guy who killed Cox was a far rightist they are immediately trying to `politicise/smear` etc. incredible. and consistent.

 

[andysays]

Stoke, Merthyr, Birmingham, Manchester and even rural Shropshire, the same lines recurred: so unchanging that they threatened to turn into cliches, but all the more powerful because of their ubiquity. “I’m scared about the future” … “No one listens to us” … “If you haven’t got money, no one cares.”

Nothing that you've quoted and nothing else in the article supports the headline claiming

Britain is in the midst of a working-class revolt

If the article supports any conclusion, it's more that the working class feels scared, unlistened to, uncared about and utterly powerless, none of which suggest revolt any time soon.

 

[teqniq]

Nigel Farage's anti-immigrant poster reported to police over claims it incites racial hatred

 

[Cid]

Pie's done a nice cathartic rant:

 

[Mr Moose]

Brexit Land - I'm really wanting someone to make a spoof of Brexit using the music to Soft Cell's 'Bedsit Land'.

Mike Read?

 

[Mr Moose]

Well the obvious tiny crack here which could lead to a Labour government is the fact that a Leave vote would undoubtedly lead to the ouster of David Cameron though we obviously don't know whether that would lead to new elections or not. I'm not sure if he will be able to stay on either way to be honest, the Tory base and so many Tory MPs are openly baying for his blood. In the event of new elections it is very unlikely that we will get a Labour majority but I do think it is quite likely that the Tories would lose theirs, and in any case having elections before the planned gerrymandering of constituencies would be a significant blow to the Tories.

Replacing him with a more populist and popular leader like Boris?

 

[Mr Moose]

There's a whole of snide assumptions and dishonesty in this post.

First of all the use of support in the 1st paragraph, where support has become (either deliberately or accidentally I'm not sure) a synonym for voting remain. This is absolute nonsense, as much nonsense as arguing that because people vote Tory/Labour/LibDem/etc they don't support the re-nationalisation of the railways. Or that if people voted Labour in 2005 they must have Iraq War supporters. Many (most?) Remain voters, and certainly most of those on the Left don't support the EU at all, they simple consider staying in the EU a better alternative than leaving.

It's for that reason that I haven't simply called everyone who has said they support Remain liberal wankers. I (and I'm not alone here) have repeatedly said that I believe there are arguments for voting remain from a left wing basis. I think they are wrong, but I don't think the people holding such a viewpoint are liberals or wankers or stupid. I've certainly called some Remain supporters liberals (and I stand by those comments) but's because of the reasons they are arguing for a Remain vote not because they are arguing for a Remain vote alone.

As for the last paragraph, well I've not seen anyone on U75 argue that a successful Leave vote is going to be a "massive blow to the status quo is going to put neo-liberalism on the back foot". What I have seen people argue is that it will disrupt capital, and that opens up possibilities for labour.

It's not going to top the financial crash for disruption to capital and that went very badly for labour.

I can't disagree with the two fingers up, even now Remain fail to address the scarcities and insecurities people face.

But I believe leaving means more austerity, more isolation, less cooperation/progressive shared laws and it seals the deal that w class politics in the UK is overwhelmingly of the right and shares its irrationalities.

 

[bi0boy]

What I have seen people argue is that it will disrupt capital, and that opens up possibilities for labour.

In the same way that jumping in front of a train disrupts the railway network and opens up possibilities for nationalisation.

 

[Mr Moose]

Well the obvious tiny crack here which could lead to a Labour government is the fact that a Leave vote would undoubtedly lead to the ouster of David Cameron though we obviously don't know whether that would lead to new elections or not. I'm not sure if he will be able to stay on either way to be honest, the Tory base and so many Tory MPs are openly baying for his blood. In the event of new elections it is very unlikely that we will get a Labour majority but I do think it is quite likely that the Tories would lose theirs, and in any case having elections before the planned gerrymandering of constituencies would be a significant blow to the Tories.

I don't see any reason to believe Brexit works better than remaining in this respect. A vote to remain would leave the Tories massively divided and ripe for a coup. The next election would be fought on a re run of the referendum and as 'One Nation' (sic) Tories will baulk at going against the result UKIP can stand unopposed for leaving. Tories will defect in large numbers and Labour could run on pro EU, but with large scale reform, ticket.

Leave and the transition to Team Bojo is seamless, the rationale for UKIP disappears and the next Tory majority seismic.

 

[brogdale]

What's not to like?

Tony Blair and two former deputy prime ministers, Lord Heseltine and Nick Clegg, have launched a late plea to voters to reject “division, isolationism and blame” and vote on Thursday to stay in the EU.

After the tragic killing of Labour MP Jo Cox, they say the country is living in “worrying times” in which people must work together and unite, not pull each other apart.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Why the fuck do people think Boris Johnson will be automatically crowned emperor the day after a leave vote?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

And why do people think he'd be any different to Cameron anyway?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

I don't see any reason to believe Brexit works better than remaining in this respect. A vote to remain would leave the Tories massively divided and ripe for a coup. The next election would be fought on a re run of the referendum and as 'One Nation' (sic) Tories will baulk at going against the result UKIP can stand unopposed for leaving. Tories will defect in large numbers and Labour could run on pro EU, but with large scale reform, ticket.

Leave and the transition to Team Bojo is seamless, the rationale for UKIP disappears and the next Tory majority seismic.

Yeah, seismic!. I'll quote you on this if a leave vote actually wins out. You'll be wrong, btw.

 

[brogdale]

Punters sensing Leave's time has come...and gone...

 

[hot air baboon]

....no idea what to make of this...

Exclusive poll: EU support falls after Jo Cox murder

British support for remaining in the European Union has weakened in the wake of the murder of the pro-EU politician Jo Cox, according to an online research company Friday.

Qriously, a London-based technology start-up that gathers data and intelligence about consumers through mobile phone apps, found that backing among likely voters for Britain's EU membership has dropped to 32% from 40% before her death.

Qriously found that 52% will vote to leave the bloc in a national referendum on June 23. The figure is unchanged from before the parliamentarian's death. The weakening support for remaining in the EU coincided with a large move toward "Don't know," which leaped to 16% from 9% before Cox's assassination.

The poll was based on 1,992 British adults surveyed on June 13-16, and then 1,002 on June 17 — the day after Cox was shot and killed in northern England. The start-up claims to have held the first such survey on the topic since the lawmaker's slaying. Most of Qriously’s surveys are done for corporate brands and it has not been previously conducted an EU referendum poll.
........
Stephan Shakespeare, the founder and chief executive British polling firm YouGov, told USA TODAY he did not think Cox's murder would lead to a shift in attitudes toward the vote, "but the nature of the campaigning will be changed and that probably will have an impact" on opinion.

 

[gosub]

In the last week, leavers in favour of EEA route seem to think they have found a loop hole for blocking freedom of movement, based on the the exceptionalism of Liechtenstein. Liechtenstein IS exceptional - The only country to come out of WW1 with more soldiers than it started with (weren't allowed to actually fight, and an Italian that was looking for work took their number from 79 to 80), a Principality SO small they can and do rent the whole place by the day. Using them for precedent for drawbridge politics actually reduces the chances of the EEA route being workable.

Any actual negotiations are down to H.M.G.

 

[Mr Moose]

Yeah, seismic!. I'll quote you on this if a leave vote actually wins out. You'll be wrong, btw.

Because? What is going to happen to disrupt the Tories chances if we vote leave?

Cameron won't be fighting the next election anyway so the leadership change is unimportant. But it will take place soon. And if not Johnson or Gove then who? Osbourne? Not a leader and anyway vote in a Remain crony and the infighting continues.

What makes you think a 'leave' vote is worse for them when in the event of 'remain' UKIP will gather the sort of support the SNP did?

 

[brogdale]

Because? What is going to happen to disrupt the Tories chances if we vote leave?

Disillusionment when, economically, things don't change/get worse.

 

[brogdale]

Won't happen anyway, not with numbers like this deteriorating for the leavists...