The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[editor]

Decent of you to admit it.

Sigh. I've just shown you several links that directly contradict your stirring speech about Brexit being directly responsible for saving lives. Your subsequent whataboutery isn't going to stop your claim continuing to be completely false.

Vaccine approval isn’t quicker because of Brexit - Full Fact

The MHRA could have given the Pfizer vaccine the same emergency approval when the UK was in the EU.

fullfact.org

FactCheck: Brexit did not speed up UK vaccine authorisation

In fact, the UK regulator used EU law to authorise the jab.

www.channel4.com

But the fact that the UK is the first country in the world to approve this vaccine has got nothing directly to do with Brexit.

UK vaccine approval: Did Brexit speed up the process?

There have been claims that Brexit allowed the UK to approve a vaccine quicker than the EU, but is that correct?

www.bbc.co.uk

FactCheck: Was the UK able to approve the Pfizer vaccine before the EU because of Brexit?

The head of the UK regulator who approved the Pfizer vaccine said its progress was “totally dependent” on the “rolling review” approach it took.

www.thejournal.ie

 

[TopCat]

Only Waitrose twats care about things like that though.

Waitrose twats, certainly the ones that come to mind here, don’t join trade unions, are not socialists and give not a crumb of sourdough fucks for the working classes.

 

[editor]

Bit disappointed, I thought we had a fairly sensible discussion about this yesterday and came to agreement over this. But now it seems to be back to square one. This is why people get sick of talking about it sensibly and just start name calling.

It's not helped when people start employing emotive language to support a completely false claim though (" cheap DJ mixers are a greater benefit than my mum being alive. ")

 

[TopCat]

I wish I shared your glowing confidence.

Maybe you should campaign to remove the minimum wage? Would that not really help the hospitality industries?

 

[bimble]

Bit disappointed, I thought we had a fairly sensible discussion about this yesterday and came to agreement over this. But now it seems to be back to square one. This is why people get sick of talking about it sensibly and just start name calling.

Yep. Sod it im going to stick the thread on ignore too, it’s just pointless agro from people who aren’t my enemies.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Sigh. I've just shown you several links that directly contradict your stirring speech about Brexit being directly responsible for saving lives. Your subsequent whataboutery isn't going to stop your claim continuing to be completely false.

Vaccine approval isn’t quicker because of Brexit - Full Fact

The MHRA could have given the Pfizer vaccine the same emergency approval when the UK was in the EU.

fullfact.org

FactCheck: Brexit did not speed up UK vaccine authorisation

In fact, the UK regulator used EU law to authorise the jab.

www.channel4.com

UK vaccine approval: Did Brexit speed up the process?

There have been claims that Brexit allowed the UK to approve a vaccine quicker than the EU, but is that correct?

www.bbc.co.uk

FactCheck: Was the UK able to approve the Pfizer vaccine before the EU because of Brexit?

The head of the UK regulator who approved the Pfizer vaccine said its progress was “totally dependent” on the “rolling review” approach it took.

www.thejournal.ie

Jeepers, we know. None of which explains why those who followed the EU’s rollout, which the U.K. surely would have done if we had remained in, have vaccinated so few of their citizens and why my step mum’s aunt is now dead.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Maybe you should campaign to remove the minimum wage? Would that not really help the hospitality industries?

It would improve the atmosphere in pubs, get rid of those ghastly British people behind the bar.

 

[andysays]

If I'm reading it right, I suspect those new rules might well kill off some pubs who have continually struggled for staff.

My local has been staffed (and run) almost exclusively by non-UK workers for over a decade - something I think adds to the pub's atmosphere.

The thing I find slightly curious about this sort of comment (and I'm picking it as a recent example, rather than having a go at you personally editor) is that there appears to be no interest in asking why this pub is staffed and run almost exclusively by non-UK workers.

The absence of any interest in this question appears to simply accept that this should be automatically be the case, whereas it's is clearly a relatively recent phenomenon.

And the further question is whether it's a positive situation (aside from the possibility that it adds to the pub's atmosphere in some undefined way) that so many pubs and similar businesses are staffed almost exclusively by non-UK staff. What has happened to make this the case, and what has happened to all the UK staff who might once have worked in these places?

 

[editor]

....which the U.K. surely would have done if we had remained in....

Pure supposition and unfounded speculation.

I'm sorry about your your step mum’s aunt, but I'm not sure why you keep bringing her up.

Anyway, it's clear you're going to ignore the multiple fact checks I've posted up and insist that your hunch is right, so here ends this discussion.

 

[editor]

The thing I find slightly curious about this sort of comment (and I'm picking it as a recent example, rather than having a go at you personally editor) is that there appears to be no interest in asking why this pub is staffed and run almost exclusively by non-UK workers.

I've never asked because it doesn't really bother me to be honest. I fact, I rather like the cosmopolitan atmosphere it creates.

 

[andysays]

But Boris Johnson said it was brexit that saved your mum from dying of covid so it must be true, regardless.

It seems that you and others are simply taking the position that Boris said it so it must be nonsense, TBH

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Oh, btw, I ordered some music gadgets from a company in Sweden the other day and got hit with about a third extra cost from duty and handling fees. Just thought I'd mention it as an example of what I've previously said generally things just getting more awkward and expensive.

 

[ska invita]

Yep. Sod it im going to stick the thread on ignore too, it’s just pointless agro from people who aren’t my enemies.

dont do that please, i appreciate the stuff you find to post on here - this is a major news source for me, and im sure for others too

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Pure supposition and unfounded speculation.

If you are genuinely this politically stunted there is no point in discussing this with you any further, if you are just being disingenuous, same.

 

[TopCat]

It would improve the atmosphere in pubs, get rid of those ghastly British people behind the bar.

It was bizarre when the Ritzy Cinema living wage campaign fundraiser was held in the Albert. The Bar Staff all on minimum wage. No struggle for them.

 

[andysays]

I've never asked because it doesn't really bother me to be honest. I fact, I rather like the cosmopolitan atmosphere it creates.

So you're simply not interested in the rest of my post?

the further question is whether it's a positive situation (aside from the possibility that it adds to the pub's atmosphere in some undefined way) that so many pubs and similar businesses are staffed almost exclusively by non-UK staff. What has happened to make this the case, and what has happened to all the UK staff who might once have worked in these places?

 

[editor]

If you are genuinely this politically stunted...

Moving on from groundless speculation to ad hominens now? Classy.

 

[editor]

So you're simply not interested in the rest of my post?

the further question is whether it's a positive situation (aside from the possibility that it adds to the pub's atmosphere in some undefined way) that so many pubs and similar businesses are staffed almost exclusively by non-UK staff. What has happened to make this the case, and what has happened to all the UK staff who might once have worked in these places?

I really don't know the answer to be honest because I don't run a pub or a venue. Maybe it's because they're more likely to accept shitty conditions or zero hour contracts (like most of then do) because they're students/breezing through London/want to be in Brixton/can't find anything else. I really don't know. Maybe someone here is a boss and can offer their reasons.

I do know that probably something like 60-70% of the bar staff/sound crew/managers etc in the places where I put on shows are European.

 

[Supine]

It seems that you and others are simply taking the position that Boris said it so it must be nonsense, TBH

Seems reasonable

 

[editor]

Seems reasonable

"Politician tries to spin the facts to make his party look good"?

 

[andysays]

I really don't know the answer to be honest because I don't run a pub or a venue. Maybe it's because they're more likely to accept shitty conditions or zero hour contracts (like most of then do) because they're students/breezing through London/want to be in Brixton/can't find anything else. I really don't know. Maybe someone here is a boss and can offer their reasons.

I do know that probably something like 60-70% of the bar staff/sound crew/managers etc in the places where I put on shows are European.

Now we're slowly getting somewhere.

But there's still this bit

What has happened to make this the case, and what has happened to all the UK staff who might once have worked in these places?

Because the complete absence of any interest in this last aspect is really telling, and seems to me to be illustrative of the still existing lack of any understanding among many Remainers of why many people voted to leave the EU.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Now we're slowly getting somewhere.

But there's still this bit

What has happened to make this the case, and what has happened to all the UK staff who might once have worked in these places?

Because the complete absence of any interest in this last aspect is really telling, and seems to me to be illustrative of the still existing lack of any understanding among many Remainers of why many people voted to leave the EU.

oh killer point, yeah I definitely remember that time when bar staff weren't people who were travellers or otherwise in a position to accept low wages and casual work contracts, definitely never happened before the EU

 

[Raheem]

Bit disappointed, I thought we had a fairly sensible discussion about this yesterday and came to agreement over this. But now it seems to be back to square one. This is why people get sick of talking about it sensibly and just start name calling.

The suggestions made today and yesterday are slightly different. Yesterday, it was that, had the UK been in the EU and opted out of the JPA, vaccine production would have been slower because politics. Today, it is that if the UK had been in the EU it would not have opted out of the JPA.

FWIW, I think today's version makes better sense, but it's just speculation. Maybe we would have opted out, maybe we wouldn't, believe what suits you.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

oh killer point, yeah I definitely remember that time when bar staff weren't people who were travellers or otherwise in a position to accept low wages and casual work contracts, definitely never happened before the EU

Yeah, fuck the low paid British, parochial rather than cosmopolitan atmosphere them cunts being with them. Much better to have some breadline Spanish behind the bar, almost feels like a tapas gaff.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Yeah, fuck the low paid British, parochial rather than cosmopolitan atmosphere them cunts being with them. Much better to have some breadline Spanish behind the bar, almost feels like a tapas gaff.

bit rubbish tbh

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

bit rubbish tbh

Yep. Welcome to Brexit threads.

 

[kebabking]

FWIW, I think today's version makes better sense, but it's just speculation. Maybe we would have opted out, maybe we wouldn't, believe what suits you.

Do you not think it's interesting that not one single EU state, some of which have their own significant vaccine industries, chose to not get involved in the EU JPA?

None of these countries have no experience with vaccines, none of them are indifferent to having a vaccine - and yet every single one chose to place their faith in the abilities of a body that had no vaccine procurement experience whatsoever, all entirely and absolutely voluntarily.

Does that not give your Spidey senses not the tiniest little tingle?

I voted remain, I do not believe for one minute that had remain won we would have seen anything other than a political class - Tory, labour, LD - solidly taking that result as an instruction/affirmation to sit at the absolute centre of EU affairs. I think the idea that the UK might not have got involved in the EU vaccine project in a post-remain polity based on purely on the technical merits of an EU Vs UK approach is an utterly ridiculous suggestion - it's frankly a idea that is insulting to the intelligence of anyone, leave or remain, who has the slightest interest in UK politics.

If you want a better understanding of why remain lost, this insulting, ignoring the blindingly obvious, over-arching politics of the EU project approach is as good a reason as any.

 

[teuchter]

How are other non-EU European states doing with their vaccination programmes? Are Switzerland and Norway forging ahead, similarly unshackled from the lumbering EU?

 

[kebabking]

How are other non-EU European states doing with their vaccination programmes? Are Switzerland and Norway forging ahead, similarly unshackled from the lumbering EU?

Norway joined JPA, while Switzerland managed to fuck it up all on its own. Serbia have done well.

 

[Supine]

Do you not think it's interesting that not one single EU state, some of which have their own significant vaccine industries, chose to not get involved in the EU JPA?

None of these countries have no experience with vaccines, none of them are indifferent to having a vaccine - and yet every single one chose to place their faith in the abilities of a body that had no vaccine procurement experience whatsoever, all entirely and absolutely voluntarily.

Does that not give your Spidey senses not the tiniest little tingle?

I think the opposite I reckon

It's a sign that the EU is strong because they are choosing to work through a crisis together and not jump ship because they selfishly have their own vaccine manufacturing capabilities. It's the definition of good practice for a union of nations.

I think the vaccine procurement thing is a bit of a red herring tbh. They may be a bit behind but not by more than a few weeks and they are paying 1/3 the price. Big picture is the whole of Europe is doing well. Amazingly considering the virus has only just past its first birthday a little while ago.