The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[Flavour]

This is the very point this lady was trying to make about the effects of Brexit

Yeah I mean, the sandwiches might be the same if it were someone from the North-east of England serving them in London, but it just wouldn't have the same atmosphere.

 

[mojo pixy]

no migration policy is without its pitfalls
what i particularly dislike about this one is its classist nature

In basic terms though, either immigration brings in wealth, or it brings in labour. If it brings in labour, is that not implicitly about providing a stock of cheap and easily-dominated (also non-unionized) foreign labour, which undercuts wages and conditions so everyone has to put up with worse? Or is that an unintended consequence?

Not to mention encouraging eg. nurses and doctors to come so we don't have to pay to train our own (but causing other countries to lose theirs)

No immigration policy is there to support the working class (here or overseas), is it? It's about supporting employers and business owners to save money. The ''you'll never get English people doing those jobs'' attitude is all by itself tacit admission that foreigners are worth less than we are and there are jobs 'they' will do that 'we' won't do.

Easier to just dismiss the whole argument as racist or xenophobic (which you haven't done, but we all know people do)

Bars and care homes and fields full of foreign workers are not a victory for our inclusive immigration policy, but a failure of our entire society IMO.

 

[bimble]

Bars and care homes and fields full of foreign workers are not a victory for our inclusive immigration policy, but a failure of our entire society IMO.

Totally agree with this. But nobody is going to address the failure of our entire society in a hurry they’ll just expand things like this to plug the holes.

Up to 30,000 workers to help reap 2021 harvest

The number of workers permitted to travel to the UK to pick and package fruit and vegetables will be increased for next year’s harvest, the government has announced today (22 December).

www.gov.uk

 

[ska invita]

Totally agree with this. But nobody is going to address the failure of our entire society in a hurry they’ll just expand things like this to plug the holes.

Up to 30,000 workers to help reap 2021 harvest

The number of workers permitted to travel to the UK to pick and package fruit and vegetables will be increased for next year’s harvest, the government has announced today (22 December).

www.gov.uk

when this came up before it was said that these workers will have less rights than previously already poorly treated EU seasonal workers - would be worth finding out how exactly, I cant remember what was said before.

 

[bimble]

when this came up before it was said that these workers will have less rights than previously already poorly treated EU seasonal workers - would be worth finding out how exactly, I cant remember what was said before.

Only Waitrose twats care about things like that though.

 

[bimble]

Ok, so its absurd to ask for 'concrete benefits' a couple of months in but 10 years wait is daft too - what's a good timeframe for you ?

 

[kabbes]

Only Waitrose twats care about things like that though.

I wouldn’t get too worked up about one single poster that is obsessed with Waitrose. For what it’s worth, I shop at Waitrose in any case.

 

[Supine]

The Express and a Brixiteer MEP think the deal is shit lol.

Brexit fury as EU bans UK shellfish, eggs, potatoes and meat

BREXITEER Ben Habib has accused Boris Johnson of being "asleep on the job" in a blistering attack after it was revealed a large number of agricultural exporters are currently unable to get their products into Europe as a result of the post-Brexit trade deal.

www.express.co.uk

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Ok, so its absurd to ask for 'concrete benefits' a couple of months in but 10 years wait is daft too - what's a good timeframe for you ?

You were given a concrete benefit just six weeks in, the speedy vaccination rollout which saves lives, all of us here who’s parents are over 70 should now have had it if they live in the U.K. and it seems now will not die from it. That is not true if your parents live in the EU, which is just fucking awful as I would for one would not feel that cheap DJ mixers are a greater benefit than my mum being alive.

 

[kabbes]

One thing I really can’t understand is hard-core fundamentalist Brexiteers now complaining that their exporting to Europe has got harder. There are many complex facets to Brexit but on this one, I have to wonder wtf they expected.

 

[bimble]

You were given a concrete benefit just six weeks in, the speedy vaccination rollout which saves lives, all of us here who’s parents are over 70 should now have had it if they live in the U.K. and it seems now will not die from it. That is not true if your parents live in the EU, which is just fucking awful as I would for one would not feel that cheap DJ mixers are a greater benefit than my mum being alive.

This again? It was not brexit wot did it, in any real concrete way, as has been gone over about 17 times already.
And yeah my parents over there are still waiting for any news about their vaccines and it is shit.

 

[editor]

You were given a concrete benefit just six weeks in, the speedy vaccination rollout which saves lives, all of us here who’s parents are over 70 should now have had it if they live in the U.K. and it seems now will not die from it. That is not true if your parents live in the EU, which is just fucking awful as I would for one would not feel that cheap DJ mixers are a greater benefit than my mum being alive.

The speedy vaccination roll out was not directly due to Brexit though, was it? That is a false claim.

FactCheck: Brexit did not speed up UK vaccine authorisation

In fact, the UK regulator used EU law to authorise the jab.

www.channel4.com

Vaccine approval isn’t quicker because of Brexit - Full Fact

The MHRA could have given the Pfizer vaccine the same emergency approval when the UK was in the EU.

fullfact.org

 

[Pickman's model]

You were given a concrete benefit just six weeks in, the speedy vaccination rollout which saves lives, all of us here who’s parents are over 70 should now have had it if they live in the U.K. and it seems now will not die from it. That is not true if your parents live in the EU, which is just fucking awful as I would for one would not feel that cheap DJ mixers are a greater benefit than my mum being alive.

It's just that every so often the Tory monkeys banging away at typewriters manage to hit out quite by chance a coherent sentence. Pity well over a hundred thousand people have died because of their incompetence

 

[SpookyFrank]

It's just that every so often the Tory monkeys banging away at typewriters manage to hit out quite by chance a coherent sentence. Pity well over a hundred thousand people have died because of their incompetence

All the government really did right was hire some actual clever people to handle vaccine procurement, instead of some bunch of spiv consulatants.

And they only did that because they know, and have always known, that the private sector is a rancid, bloated carcass of a thing that should not be trusted when political careers are at stake.

 

[kabbes]

It’s like this conversation didn’t already just happen a few pages ago

 

[bimble]

But Boris Johnson said it was brexit that saved your mum from dying of covid so it must be true, regardless.

 

[TopCat]

Innit. I think it’s just the usual self entitlement thinking they speak for a majority, always.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

And we’re back to the, “We could have done it anyway” line, happily ignoring that they didn’t.

Which is why this thread should be shut down too as anything other than Spymaster’s crying babies is futile.

I hope your parents get it soon bimble, my step mum’s aunt ( whom I have never met) died from Covid last week in Arnhem, she was late 80’s and hadn’t had it.

 

[kabbes]

I’ll say it again then. It seems inconceivable to me that in the universe in which Remain had won and Cameron and Osborne had stayed on, the result would have been anything other than an attempt to double-down on “European-ness” and build on joint European ventures. As such, talking about what would have been “legally possible” is really missing the point. It’s about what is politically possible.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

It's just that every so often the Tory monkeys banging away at typewriters manage to hit out quite by chance a coherent sentence. Pity well over a hundred thousand people have died because of their incompetence

Sure, yet the EU didn’t even bring the monkeys in to the typing pool.

 

[TopCat]

If I'm reading it right, I suspect those new rules might well kill off some pubs who have continually struggled for staff.

My local has been staffed (and run) almost exclusively by non-UK workers for over a decade - something I think adds to the pub's atmosphere.

Sadly it’s workers from abroad who are more likely to work for minimum wage and not be in a union. Employers inc our local know this.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

The speedy vaccination roll out was not directly due to Brexit though, was it? That is a false claim.

FactCheck: Brexit did not speed up UK vaccine authorisation

In fact, the UK regulator used EU law to authorise the jab.

www.channel4.com

Vaccine approval isn’t quicker because of Brexit - Full Fact

The MHRA could have given the Pfizer vaccine the same emergency approval when the UK was in the EU.

fullfact.org

Inside the EU we could have gone it alone, but we would not have done so, therefore your claim is moot, at best.

 

[TopCat]

I'd love it if workers start getting guaranteed better wages, but I imagine the most likely outcome will be Brexit making no difference at all and some pubs/cafes struggling to keep afloat or closing altogether because of staff shortages.

We are about to have up to two million extra unemployed. Plenty of people for jobs. No where will close unless their economic model relies on paying absolute minimum.

 

[editor]

Inside the EU we could have gone it alone, but we would not have done so, therefore your claim is moot, at best.

OK. Denial it is.

 

[editor]

We are about to have up to two million extra unemployed. Plenty of people for jobs. No where will close unless their economic model relies on paying absolute minimum.

I wish I shared your glowing confidence.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

OK. Denial it is.

Decent of you to admit it.

 

[Supine]

We are about to have up to two million extra unemployed. Plenty of people for jobs. No where will close unless their economic model relies on paying absolute minimum.

Unless they work in factories, warehouses, trucking firms etc in which case the jobs are moving to the EU.

 

[Pickman's model]

Sure, yet the EU didn’t even bring the monkeys in to the typing pool.

They treat their typewriters with more respect there

 

[Puddy_Tat]

when this came up before it was said that these workers will have less rights than previously already poorly treated EU seasonal workers - would be worth finding out how exactly, I cant remember what was said before.

says the visa is for 6 months, so no right to settle / bring family (some would see this as a good thing)

not clear what basis access to health care would be on in the event of illness / accident

also not clear what happens if worker falls out with employer (e.g. for complaining about working conditions / health + safety and so on) or if job ends earlier than expected

not clear whether minimum wage applies and whether there's any protection from most of that being held back as 'payment' for sub-standard accommodation

 

[rutabowa]

But Boris Johnson said it was brexit that saved your mum from dying of covid so it must be true, regardless.

Bit disappointed, I thought we had a fairly sensible discussion about this yesterday and came to agreement over this. But now it seems to be back to square one. This is why people get sick of talking about it sensibly and just start name calling.