If there had been any kind of campaign to remain but reform radically then who knows I might have remembered to vote, but unfortunately the vote was between "EU flag and facepaint" or "union jack and facepaint", and fuck both of those flags. And now, having left, there is no way that rejoining could be anything but a complete EU flag exercise with no possibility of any reform, so best to think of other ways forward.
The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion
- Thread starter brogdale
- Start date
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
In my case, not really that. Can't speak for others. It was recognising, and indeed outlining, the ways you want the EU to change, but also judging that the UK leaving the EU in these circumstances was even worse than remaining in the EU as it is now, warts and all.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
I don't think anyone here is talking about rejoining, even some tories are talking about renegotiating bits of the treaty though.
There was and is no chance of any kind of EU reform except to make it more neoliberal. It exists to shore up capitalism via facilitating the flow of capital, labour and goods. It is part of the neoliberal project, which was and is to counter Marxism by making individualism seem the only way. This involves the valorisation of “freedom” and agency, which is why it appears “progressive” in terms of supporting those individual rights that don’t interfere with the needs of capital. But it does not exist to benefit ordinary people in any way and there is no way the power that exists buried in those opaque structures are ever going to start some kind of process to unwind precisely what it is set up to do. They wouldn’t even give Cameron any tiny concession that was in any way counter to their project merely to help him keep the UK within their structure.
And that’s before you get to the difficulty in changing a multinational institution via the cultural pressure arising from a single nation. How’s that going to happen?
In short, the very idea of “radical remain” is not just insanely optimistic, it’s a total misunderstanding of the whole basis of the modern western world.
And that’s before you get to the difficulty in changing a multinational institution via the cultural pressure arising from a single nation. How’s that going to happen?
In short, the very idea of “radical remain” is not just insanely optimistic, it’s a total misunderstanding of the whole basis of the modern western world.
Well, that was what I thought too in 2016. I’m open now, however, to the fact that in 2031, it doesn’t have to still be that way. Brexit and the future path of the UK is still open for negotiation and change. The EU, however, is doing exactly what it was designed to do, so why would it reverse that?
Yossarian
⏭️
I'd bet a fiver that an Urban poll would get a majority in favour of Rejoin, if it wasn't shut down within minutes for being an obvious troll.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I'm not so sure that noone wants to rejoin. I am 100% sure, though, that noone is saying "the deal is totally perfect as it is now, let's just leave it exactly as it is and never discuss it again". Obviously tons of things need to change/be decided.
As far as making sure the vaccine gets distributed to poorer countries globally, this organisation seems to be far more important for achieving that than the EU: COVAX
Covax: How many Covid vaccines have the US and the other G7 countries pledged?
As the US doubles its donation pledge, here's a look at how the Covax vaccine scheme is progressing.
www.bbc.co.uk
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
This lot remind me of that Comical Ali dude who refused to accept that there were American tanks in Iraq when there was one in the picture behind him
I’m often fondly reminded when reading some posters contributions on Brexit threads of some of the most ardent U.K. supporters of the old Soviet Union. Their first line would normally be to defend any issue that the Soviet Union engaged in whilst criticising the west. Occasionally when on learning that in fact sections of the leadership of the Soviet Union had in fact had a period of reflection and self criticism , ( normally blame would fall on failure on a rogue production plant or industry not meeting set targets , rather than the system its self) the line would then have to change. The new line would admit those faults but with the important caveat that whatever leverage the west actually might have achieved it had also failed and more importantly in a way the west failed worse because of its insidious nature.
bimble
floofy
I don’t know what changes he is on about but it’s not impossible that the Eu will have to do some things differently to avoid collapse if things go well here (if we don’t become a cautionary tale) and more countries have campaigns to leave.
Macron: EU must reform or face Frexit
The presidential candidate says he will not let down French people demanding changes to the EU.
www.bbc.co.uk
He’s changed his tuneI don’t know what changes he is on about but it’s not impossible that the Eu will have to do some things differently to avoid collapse if things go well here (if we don’t become a cautionary tale) and more countries have campaigns to leave.
Macron: EU must reform or face Frexit
The presidential candidate says he will not let down French people demanding changes to the EU.www.bbc.co.uk
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
That video is actually from 2017 . Macron had faced populist oppositional candidates from both left and right , Melenchon and Le Penn who were anti EU.I don’t know what changes he is on about but it’s not impossible that the Eu will have to do some things differently to avoid collapse if things go well here (if we don’t become a cautionary tale) and more countries have campaigns to leave.
Macron: EU must reform or face Frexit
The presidential candidate says he will not let down French people demanding changes to the EU.www.bbc.co.uk
Maggot
The Cake of Liberty
So a Tory group has asked that we 'restart Brexit talks' because the UK is now less safe and less secure.
So much for Boris' brilliant oven-ready deal.
www.independent.co.uk
So much for Boris' brilliant oven-ready deal.
Restart Brexit talks because UK is ‘less safe and less secure’, Tory group tells Boris Johnson
‘Every day that passes is storing up problems ... the government cannot simply cross its fingers and hope’
www.independent.co.uk
editor
hiraethified
Farcical.So a Tory group has asked that we 'restart Brexit talks' because the UK is now less safe and less secure.
So much for Boris' brilliant oven-ready deal.
Restart Brexit talks because UK is ‘less safe and less secure’, Tory group tells Boris Johnson
‘Every day that passes is storing up problems ... the government cannot simply cross its fingers and hope’
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Here’s a benefit for the benefits of Brexit thread which was closed:
Fewer Irish lorries on British roads, as ferry companies scramble to offer direct-to-continent services for Irish hauliers, as using the UK as a transit route becomes a lot less atttractive due to the paperwork. Those lorries that transited the UK brought no benefits to the UK economy aside from an occasional Burger King purchase or whatever, yet contributed to congestion, collisions, pollution and damage on the road network.
Fewer Irish lorries on British roads, as ferry companies scramble to offer direct-to-continent services for Irish hauliers, as using the UK as a transit route becomes a lot less atttractive due to the paperwork. Those lorries that transited the UK brought no benefits to the UK economy aside from an occasional Burger King purchase or whatever, yet contributed to congestion, collisions, pollution and damage on the road network.
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platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Took me two days to think of that. 
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
(((Yorkie sales)))
TopCat
Putin fanboy
It’s been mentioned several times on this thread. But discounted, ridiculed, labelled not a benefit, can’t be measured in increased Waitrose food budgets.Didn't kabbes say it in the ill fated (but which is not to be mentioned) Brexit benefits thread?
(sorryand it is a good one)
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
So a Tory group has asked that we 'restart Brexit talks' because the UK is now less safe and less secure.
So much for Boris' brilliant oven-ready deal.
Restart Brexit talks because UK is ‘less safe and less secure’, Tory group tells Boris Johnson
‘Every day that passes is storing up problems ... the government cannot simply cross its fingers and hope’
TBF calling that "a Tory group" is a bit of a stretch; "group of former Tories" would have been more accurate.
Maggot
The Cake of Liberty
Eh? They are still tories.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Well apart from that I was close
Maggot
The Cake of Liberty
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Asda, but he's a rebel.
wemakeyousoundb
hopefully not gimboid
taking back control from walmart!!!
e2a: pretty sure s/he is a LIDL/ALDi customer on the old kent road (so am I)
gosub
~#
Except people didn't, politicians did and they squandered the time
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