It wasn't brexit itself but it was our pioneering and indepedent spirit, our boldness, the same one that made us conquer the waves and made the referendum necessary here before it became necessary anywhere else. waves tiny flag
Seems a bit vague. Are you able to explain what it means? How might the UK have become ensnared?The quote I just read was "while it would have been legally possible to go it alone as an EU member, there is little doubt the UK would have been snarled up in Brussels politics, and far less able to procure at speed. Overall production would have been the loser."
YES absolutely, fair enough, I'm def not saying it is perfect! But you at least have to acknowledge that, in this v specific case, brexit probably did have some benefit.
Yeah. That or dumb luck.It wasn't brexit itself but it was our pioneering and indepedent spirit, our boldness, the same one that made us conquer the waves and made the referendum necessary here before it became necessary anywhere else. waves tiny flag
Between 26 and 27 March, the UK government moved from saying it did not intend to join the EU’s joint procurement programme for Covid-19, to saying that it could participate in future tenders.
The explanation? Apparently emails from the European Commission in relation to four tenders were missed, which left the UK unable to participate.
But the EU states that got impatient and did negotiate their own contracts, ended up having them subsumed into the EU one and have ended up (at this stage) having had to share what they arranged to procure shared with the rest of EUrope at the 'benefit' the vaccines costing less per vile.It only involves the assumption that choosing to stay in the EU would have involved doing things as part of the EU.
I find it bizarre to suggest that in a world in which remain had won with the result that Cameron and Osborne had remained in charge with their successors coming from continuity remain, the direction of travel would then have been to do things that undermined EU solidarity.
If the UK had joined in with the EU scheme, we would never have known that it would have had a quicker roll out outside that scheme.OK there is an argument that there should have been more european solidarity. It would be quite a tough sell to people in the UK though: "we shouldn't really have had all these vaccines, really we should have a lot less and have more people die in the UK but it would have been fairer." I mean it is probably right globally speaking, but good luck trying to make that argument talking to people living in the UK.
Marine le Pen doing well apparently. She used to want Frexit but doesn't now, does anyone know why?2021's French and German elections , could well be a 'hold my beer' to 2020's US election.
The Israelis aren't convinced that they are seeing that in the real world.That has turned out to be a good decision too, with regulators all over the place starting to recommend focusing on the first dose. The Pfizer vaccine has now been found to be 93% effective after two weeks after one dose and there is pressure in the US to start prioritising first doses rather than worrying about second doses.
Marine le Pen doing well apparently. She used to want Frexit but doesn't now, does anyone know why?
Oh definitely. But it is difficult when there are also plenty of people who are convinced that out scheme is not actually world leading, it was just luck, it is a tory scheme so must be shit, and anyway we could have done it within the EU anyway, and anyway it would have been better if we didn't do it at all.It is fine line to tread. It is fair to say that plenty are are convinced brexit is the cause of our world leading vaccine programme & nothing will change their minds. Ed Balls of all people made a good point on R4 news this morning. He opined that the UK’s post brexit position in the world would be better served by leading the way but without the triumphalism. As subtle as calling our successful vaccination programme world leading not world beating perhaps ?
I have to bow to the expertise of others on this one. It seems like a mess of views right now though.The Israelis aren't convinced that they are seeing that in the real world.
I was just looking at what actually happened in countries accross the EU.Seems a bit vague. Are you able to explain what it means? How might the UK have become ensnared?
Maybe it's just better not to frame it in terms of brexit at all?Oh definitely. But it is difficult when there are also plenty of people who are convinced that out scheme is not actually world leading, it was just luck, it is a tory scheme so must be shit, and anyway we could have done it within the EU anyway, and anyway it would have been better if we didn't do it at all.
Populism init? Polls atm show that any frexit ref would be lost but if that changes then Le Pen’s opinion will change I‘m sure.Marine le Pen doing well apparently. She used to want Frexit but doesn't now, does anyone know why?
So, are you looking at countries that opted in and saying "Here's what happens when you opt out"?I was just looking at what actually happened in countries accross the EU.
OK there is an argument that there should have been more european solidarity. It would be quite a tough sell to people in the UK though: "we shouldn't really have all these vaccines, really we should have a lot less and have more people die in the UK but it would have been fairer." I mean it is probably right globally speaking, but good luck trying to make that argument talking to people living in the UK.
It's not allowed to be a benefit. Nothing is.
Surely you have enough other benefits you don't need to pretend this was one
I can't imagine there's many Europeans looking over the utter chaos of Brexit and thinking, "Yeah, I'd love some of that for my country."Marine le Pen doing well apparently. She used to want Frexit but doesn't now, does anyone know why?
It also doesn't look like there was much solidarity within the EU joitn procure agreement when it came to the crunch: How Europe fell behind on vaccinesBeyond vaccines...Western economies will need defibulating as a result of covid. Do you think the UK, were it involved in the EU bun fight, would have been a net recipient of aid or a bankroller?
tbh it's part of the same mindset that threw its weight and money behind the vaccine. It's not a coincidence that Donald Trump also placed huge emphasis on developing a vaccine rather than controlling the spread.It would have been good if the same independent brexit-leaning mindset had led to some sort of attempt to control how many covid positive people were flying in and out of our island this past year, a bit odd that it didn't until last week, imo.
They'll be watching closely, if all looks good in a couple of years I think it will probably happen. If not not.I can't imagine there's many Europeans looking over the utter chaos of Brexit and thinking, "Yeah, I'd love some of that for my country."
I too supported remain (I didn't vote, I forgot. I figure it was Other People's Argument.... still do). Still don't support brexit really. It is just when something is as clear as this point, it looks crazy to deny it imo.I voted Remain ffs