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I was also confused by kabbes labelling this as "middle class neoliberal conceptualisation of “benefit”"


With the proviso that government bills often don't turn out how they promise, that seems like it would be a real, tangible future benefit to everyone - exactly what the thread was asking for.
 
kabbes please tell me where, on the other thread (now closed) I called Brexiteers stupid.
By starting a thread saying, at this point in time and in this context, “GO ON THEN, where are the advantages, THERE AREN’T ANY, and I don’t mean stupid “ideological” ones, I want REAL ones.” There’s contempt dripping through that entire challenge.

You don’t actually have to use the word “stupid” in order to call somebody stupid. Language is infinitely more subtle than that.
 
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By stating a thread saying, at this point in time and in this context, “GO ON THEN, where are the advantages, THERE AREN’T ANY, and I don’t mean stupid “ideological” ones, I want REAL ones.” There’s contempt dripping through that entire challenge.

You don’t actually have to use the word “stupid” in order to call somebody stupid. Language is infinitely more subtle than that.
I genuinely wanted to know, and posters like WouldBe and ska invita gave some good examples before your ridiculous misinterpretation of my post.
 
I genuinely wanted to know, and posters like WouldBe and ska invita gave some good examples before your ridiculous misinterpretation of my post.
I don’t believe you. I don’t believe you genuinely thought that two months into Brexit somebody was going to provide you with The Answer to why Brexit had already provided you with a concrete, tangible thing for you to accept and say, “well that’s okay then”. You’re dripping with disingenuousness and you’re just making yourself look foolish by insisting it was all open-hearted good faith. Nobody asking in good faith ends their request with a pass-agg pre-emptive strike against potential answers, for a start.
 
So, does the closure of the "Benefits of Brexit" thread mean that there are officially no benefits to Brexit, the the Remainers have won the argument and we can all move on to arguing about something else now?
It is how the individual views it. Most leave voters I know are absolutely happy with brexit. They see a definite benefit of brexit. We have got out of the EU & that is the benefit for leavers. Their vote was respected in the end. For plenty of people who are still working ok or are getting their old age pensions nothing has changed financially for them. The supermarket shelves are still full so no worries. They don’t work in any industries that are affected by brexit.

For some there will definite benefits. We have left the single market so everything needs customs clearance. Both the public sector & private sector will need to train 1000s of new employees to work in customs clearance. It is skilled well paid work. If government stands firm & does not allow farmers to import unskilled migrant workers then maybe some of those farmers will invest & mechanise & employ local people in better paid & less exploitive work ? Plenty of UK firms are having to open wharehouses in Europe but if their previous UK operations were staffed mainly by migrant labour then little is visibly being lost.

Plenty of leavers I know go on holiday to Europe. Mostly Spain for a couple of weeks. As far as they are concerned once Covid is over they can go again. They are not bothered it might take them 10 more minutes at the airport.

I voted remain because I could not see the point of leaving. I was & still am a Labour voter. I would have gone for a second referendum which might well have been won by remain by a small majority but then the argument would have continued.

Some Labour MPs ie Stephen Kinnock said Labour should have voted through Theresa May’s deal which would have kept us in the customs union & kept free movement. With hindsight perhaps this was a good idea? Johnson’s “oven ready” deal was just the deal offered by EU first but May rejected because it put a customs border in the UK & Johnson agreed at the time.

Brexit will reduce GDP you cannot argue with the maths but it is for the government to decide what to do with the revenue. Tax cuts for the rich or better social services ? The UK voters can decide at the next general election.

For some brexit has spoiled their lives. Plenty of pensioners loved the lifestyle of spending most of their time in a motorhome in Southern Europe. Some will have sold large homes in the the UK. Bought a mobile home on a UK holiday park to keep a UK base & spent £100k on a large motorhome. Others will have homes in the UK & homes or mobile homes in France or Spain spending most of their time in Europe. With the ending of free movement ours as well as EU nationals they are now restricted to 90 days in every 180. Their lifestyles spoiled but to most this will sound like trouble in paradise.

For myself my trips to Europe are more modest. Car & tent in France & Spain. Trips are less than 90 days so little change for me. I was angry about the leave vote for a while but I have accepted it now. Why be bitter ? Most of my friends voted leave & are happy with how things are. We agree to differ & remain friends.
 
I was going to post on that Benefits thread with a valuable contribution but it got shut down as I submitted it.

You all struggle to think of anything but it's very good news for Russia and, although you will deny it in your future DV checks, we all secretly want Russia to take over the world. Best anthem, coolest looking jets, shitloads of gulags. The sooner the West collapses into economic ruin the sooner we can all have our own Buran.
 
I was going to post on that Benefits thread with a valuable contribution but it got shut down as I submitted it.

You all struggle to think of anything but it's very good news for Russia and, although you will deny it in your future DV checks, we all secretly want Russia to take over the world. Best anthem, coolest looking jets, shitloads of gulags. The sooner the West collapses into economic ruin the sooner we can all have our own Buran.
What does any of this mean?
 
What was it that made leaving the customs union an important thing for the government when they were interpreting the referendum result? Why did that become a red line what’s the hoped-for benefit?

Pressure from the ERG.

They always wanted it as hard as possible
 
Not sure you can find out what people think the benefits of Brexit are by asking, though.
Yet between kabbes and BobDavis the question has been dealt with quite elegantly. Just not in the terms insisted upon by the whinge brigade. Benefits that are gobsmackingly obvious to one side, aren’t considered benefits at all by the other and for the tens of millions of us who don’t tour Europe in a boy band, the loss of mobility is little more than a trifling annoyance. It’s therefore pointless pursuing it any further.
 
amazing how much bad feeling there still is, and how much people are determined to make that bad feeling worse
I'm pretty bitter about brexit. This brexit, the one that's actually happened, not some abstract notion of brexit.

And the various ludicrous attempts to make out that those of us who are pissed off by the whole thing are somehow expressing elitist concerns don't exactly help. Top Cat will no doubt attach a 'laughing' smilie at this. Someone else will post something about Waitrose. Fucking clueless, and politically bankrupt.
 
Yet between kabbes and BobDavis the question has been dealt with quite elegantly. Just not in the terms insisted upon by the whinge brigade.
This is a tad generous. I'm not sure what post by kabbes you are talking about, but BobDavis's post basically boils down to (1) A lot of leave voters are happy that their vote was eventually acted on and (2) a lot of leave voters haven't yet noticed any negative impact on themselves. Both valid comments, but I don't think it's reasonable to expect it to be clear to anyone why these things count as "benefits of Brexit".
 
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