The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[The39thStep]

Thankfully we will still be out in five years. You can work it out yourself. If the last weeks events dont sway your view I am sure the EU will show their true colours again soon enough. That plus hindsight might help.

of course the EU actions might just be part of a cunning plan to nip the rejoin lobby in the bud before it grows into a position of power.

 

[teuchter]

Ok I did not get that. I thought it was Northern Ireland that would have been fucked .

Yes, I think you're right. I just had a look at various Irish newspaper websites. There was hardly anything about the article 16 business in the headlines, other than reporting what Arlene Foster has to say about things.

 

[Raheem]

It's not the UK that the EU attempted to shaft last night, it's fucking Ireland.

That's not true. Ireland was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Story of its life.

 

[sleaterkinney]

I was always on the fence. I decided how to vote in the polling booth and even then I think the deciding factor was that I just didn't want to vote the same way as people like Farage. Plenty has happened since the referendum to make me question that decision. This is just a massive kick in the same direction. What I don't get is why people, when faced with absolutely crystal clear evidence of out-and-out EU cuntery, insist on performing gymnastics to excuse it.

I think they haven’t managed the vaccine supply thing well at all, are coping flak from it and now are lashing out. The article 16 thing was a bad mistake which they’ve now rectified.
It doesn’t change my mind that we’d be better off in the EU. All the vaccine stuff that the UK has done they would still have been able to do.

 

[Spymaster]

Nope, completely missing the point.

The UK and EU are - post Brexit - now competitors, there's a huge amount of bitterness between them, and both sides can (and should) expect the other to stick the knife in should the need, or just opportunity, arise.

But Ireland is not a competitor to the EU, it's a part of the EU, and a part that the EU has repeatedly said is at the heart of the EU, with the non-border border at the front and centre of its decision making process.

It's not the UK that the EU attempted to shaft last night, it's fucking Ireland.

But nothing actually happened!

 

[bimble]

That's not true. Ireland was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Story of its life.

reminds of this which raised a subdued small lol when i saw it. (she is a lawyer)

 

[philosophical]

Is it appropriate to differentiate in terms of 'hard' or 'soft' border?
Even though the physical nature of borders can be different all around the world, and they are controlled, or managed, or monitored, or enforced in different ways according to where they are, surely the essence is something like 'they are over there doing things the way they do, but those others are over there doing things the way they do them and between them there is something usually known as a border'.
Before the referendum, on one of the more contraversial borders on the planet, things had come to pass that caused that 'over there/over here' border thing to be hardly noticeable, hardly a difference on either side.
The referendum vote which tellingly included the word 'leave' changed the circumstances.
My brother living in Shannon thought the change would lead to what he would call a 'turn a blind eye' situation with regard to the over there/over here thing. The trouble is that within a month of the 'deal' the absurdity and fragility of border arrangements were exposed.
It may not be over the vaccine, but I feel that some time in the future the absurdity and fragility of the border arrangements brought about by the 'deal' and the Northern Ireland protocol will arise over something else.
The challenge for those who voted leave remains the same as it ever was. What does leave mean in terms of the border between two different systems?
My brother in Shannon is beginning to realise that an informal 'turn a blind eye' situation is not sustainable in the long term.
This very afternoon Gove is going on about working with those in Northern Ireland to deal with the problems they have identified. I wonder why those problems weren't sorted out before anything called a 'deal'. Arlene Foster still thinks there are problems despite the deal made by the party that bribed her for her party's support under Theresa May.

 

[kabbes]

Thinking about it, the lasting impact for me of this most recent turd on top of four years of EU nonsense is not really about pleasure or remorse in the leave/remain outcome. It’s simply that if I am ever asked if I want to rejoin, there’s not a snowballs chance in hell of me saying yes. Pragmatically speaking, I’ve seen the practical reality of how they treat both their members and their former members now wanting a different kind of relationship, and I’d be as wary of returning to that fold as I would be of rejoining an employer or reforming a friendship that had fucked me over in the past. But more so because quitting or ghosting is easy whereas Brexiting is a grade A nightmare. Best just to stay out and not risk it.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I thought it was fairly common knowledge that France/Germany are the EU. In the interests of 'the project' and common courtesy the other states are at least usually consulted with regards to decision making.
Except where the shit is really hitting the fan and the mask slips and you end up with a situation like yesterday. Ireland not even aware never mind consulted!
France and Germany are really suffering right now and I get it, everyone needs those vaccine supplies right now, and it must be infuriating to see massive delivery reductions against what you were promised.
But this episode has shone a light on the reality of how the EU operates, and that the principal of 27 equal member states is pie in the sky really.

And there was another member that was on an equal footing power-wise who has now fucked off leaving the rest of them to the mercies of Germany & France. No wonder the Dutch are bitter as hell about it.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

As an aside to the latest shitshow, how come Germany hasn’t developed a vaccine? They have a huge pharmaceutical industry and a great university system, if Oxford was on it from day one, where was Heidelberg?

 

[Spymaster]

As an aside to the latest shitshow, how come Germany hasn’t developed a vaccine? They have a huge pharmaceutical industry and a great university system, if Oxford was on it from day one, where was Heidelberg?

BioNTech is German.

 

[Supine]

There are 150+ drugs that it is illegal to export from the UK at the moment. Just to put the EU action on vaccines into perspective.

List of medicines that cannot be exported from the UK or hoarded - GOV.UK

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk

 

[The39thStep]

I think CureVac who are based in Holland have a German connection .

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

BioNTech is German.

So what’s all the fuss about if they are making their own one?

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

There are 150+ drugs that it is illegal to export from the UK at the moment. Just to put the EU action on vaccines into perspective.

List of medicines that cannot be exported from the UK or hoarded - GOV.UK

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk

Ketamine and MDMA exports are still fine, it seems

 

[kebabking]

So what’s all the fuss about if they are making their own one?

Mucho dollar. The AZ is both vastly cheaper to buy and to rollout.

To be fair, there was quite a bit of squabbling within the Union of Peace and Harmony about giving all the money to a German company. They all wanted a peice of the pie.

They have, simply, just been really unlucky - but they set themselves up to be in a really bad place if they were unlucky.

Expect the word subsidiarity to make a big reappearance...

 

[The39thStep]

So what’s all the fuss about if they are making their own one?

They didn’t buy enough of that vaccine ,partly due to the fact that that company supplies other countries and there’s a capacity issue which has already surfaced but also due , quite rightly , that they wanted to have a larger number of suppliers in their portfolio . They struck a large deal with AZ wanting to use their weight for a cost effective option , insisted on EU production sites but there have been capacity issues at that company as well . As I’ve said before they’ve come late to the table and put their eggs in one basket . Unless their hard stance reaps some results I expect there will be pressure from mire states to go outside the EU procurement strategy ( Germany and others have already done this )

 

[The39thStep]

There are 150+ drugs that it is illegal to export from the UK at the moment. Just to put the EU action on vaccines into perspective.

List of medicines that cannot be exported from the UK or hoarded - GOV.UK

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk

What perspective is that ?

 

[Treacle Toes]

Pragmatically speaking, I’ve seen the practical reality of how they treat both their members and their former members now wanting a different kind of relationship, and I’d be as wary of returning to that fold as I would be of rejoining an employer or reforming a friendship that had fucked me over in the past.

They have quite clearly fucked this up but I see no reason for celebration or 'yay we won' sentimentality about being better off given we're governed by a party that voted to be able to break international law and a home secretary that suggested starving Ireland into submission recently to name just two examples of many fucked decisions and attitudes that we are gonna be subjected to for a long time yet.

 

[TopCat]

Damn that cunt Macron and his ignorant, arrogant speech on Friday. His comments about the limited efficiency of the Oxford vaccine have scared my parents (who have had this jab) hugely. They are now really anxious. They take the cunt seriously because of his role. The cunt.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Damn that cunt Macron and his ignorant, arrogant speech on Friday. His comments about the limited efficiency of the Oxford vaccine have scared my parents (who have had this jab) hugely. They are now really anxious. They take the cunt seriously because of his role. The cunt.

Aye, in a swamp of cunts he stands out as a massive one.

My dad has had it as well, to be fair he thinks Macron is a cunt as well, so hasn’t paid much notice. But telling elderly people that their vaccine is shit - for nationalist political gain - really is a new low for the slimy shitstain.

 

[Spymaster]

Damn that cunt Macron and his ignorant, arrogant speech on Friday. His comments about the limited efficiency of the Oxford vaccine have scared my parents (who have had this jab) hugely. They are now really anxious. They take the cunt seriously because of his role. The cunt.

Tell your folk to read the scientists data. Macron's just a puffed-up little shitball whose own medicines agency has effectively just told him that he's talking shit.

 

[The39thStep]

What perspective is that ?

Well , he said talking to himself, these restrictions were placed initially in March 2020 , doesn't affect those with a license to be exported, most European Countries did the same and weren't part of a 'transparency' campaign against a pharmaceutical company .

 

[The39thStep]

You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. Even the Guardian has waded in now

The Observer view on the vaccine dispute with Brussels | Observer editorial

Making a scapegoat of Britain can’t disguise the EU’s shambolic response to Covid-19 vaccine acquisition

www.theguardian.com

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows. Even the Guardian has waded in now

The Observer view on the vaccine dispute with Brussels | Observer editorial

Making a scapegoat of Britain can’t disguise the EU’s shambolic response to Covid-19 vaccine acquisition

www.theguardian.com

Fair play to the Guardian for that.

 

[Spymaster]

Fair play to the Guardian for that.

All the EU bum-lickers' heads are spinning now

 

[SpookyFrank]

Damn that cunt Macron and his ignorant, arrogant speech on Friday. His comments about the limited efficiency of the Oxford vaccine have scared my parents (who have had this jab) hugely. They are now really anxious. They take the cunt seriously because of his role. The cunt.

Macron has to bully children into taking him seriously, ergo he's not a serious person.

 

[Rushy]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the Scottish independence "debate".

 

[moochedit]

Tell your folk to read the scientists data. Marcon's just a puffed-up little shitball whose own medicines agency has effectively just told him that he's talking shit.

I'm sure it has nothing whatsoever to do with the french vaccine failing it's trials recently

 

[Supine]

All the EU bum-lickers' heads are spinning now

It's perfectly possible to be pro European and to think they have done a shocking job on the vaccines front.