The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[Serge Forward]

Is it the whole rest of the world that’s pretentious and posh or is it actually mostly just France ? (Seriously, curious about the roots of this attitude and how much it had to do with the whole stupid referendum).

It's on a continuum with 'posh Tarquins' at one end and 'rootless cosmopolitans' on the other.

 

[flypanam]

That's nice but I'm mostly going from details here.





Apparently noone who isn't posh visits Europe which is going to be news to Spain and Prague's cheap boozers.

Fits in nicely with the dept of Ed and office for students demand that education be all about employability.

 

[mauvais]

It's on a continuum with 'posh Tarquins' at one end and 'rootless cosmopolitans' on the other.

We also simultaneously believe that foreigners - especially the French - are dirty and uncultured. What a people we are.

 

[kabbes]

We also simultaneously believe that ... the French - are dirty and uncultured.

Well. I mean, you’ve been there, right?

 

[mauvais]

Well. I mean, you’ve been there, right?

I mostly regret not staying, to be honest.

 

[editor]

New York Times seems unimpressed

 

[Flavour]

I am in France right now and tbf central Paris does feel cleaner than central London, the streets I mean. Nicer bread too

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The constant tendency to equate anything foreign with poshness is very weird. Seems to go for everything, cheese, jobs, the lot. What is that about.

On this thread it's about not having any arguments. Brexit is just fucking shit, and the idiots pretending it's only middle class privilege that is affected know that.

 

[Artaxerxes]

I am in France right now and tbf central Paris does feel cleaner than central London, the streets I mean. Nicer bread too

Whenever I do manage to get abroad I'm always impressed by the quality of standard supermarket bread, and the stock in general tbh.

 

[ska invita]

We also simultaneously believe that foreigners - especially the French - are dirty and uncultured. What a people we are.

iv been picking up bits and pieces about historic british hygeine practices - alergic to water sums it up

Sootkins was a bit of an eye opener!

Urban Dictionary: sootikin

A small, mouse-shaped deposit formed in the vaginal cleft, usually of poorer women who did not wear undergarments - common until the nineteenth century. A sootikin built up over several weeks, even months, of not washing. It was composed of particles of soot, dirt, sweat, smegma (qv) and vaginal...

www.urbandictionary.com

 

[The39thStep]

I mostly regret not staying, to be honest.

 

[agricola]

Is it the whole rest of the world that’s pretentious and posh or is it actually mostly just France ? (Seriously, curious about the roots of this attitude and how much it had to do with the whole stupid referendum).

We've always had an inferiority complex with regards to them, as have most of their neighbours (the Germans especially). It is after all the part of Europe thats nearly always been the best part of Europe to live, with the most natural advantages and with the best style of life - good food, good wine, good views, good weather etc.

I think recently though, its the Eurotunnel that is to blame. Flying between Heathrow and CDG (or any French airport), or taking the ferry is pretty much swapping one standardized travel experience for another, but taking the train is basically you moving from a backwards country to a modern one. Its really obvious how cramped the Underground is (even a relatively modern line like the Victoria) after going on the RER, and as for the intercity services the difference between even the most modern trains here and the oldest TGV (never mind the Duplex) is vast. Everything about SNCF is demonstrably superior to here, even daft things like ticketing.

 

[The39thStep]

We also simultaneously believe that foreigners - especially the French - are dirty and uncultured. What a people we are.

I've never heard of people calling the French dirty tbh .

 

[Pickman's model]

We've always had an inferiority complex with regards to them, as have most of their neighbours (the Germans especially). It is after all the part of Europe thats nearly always been the best part of Europe to live, with the most natural advantages and with the best style of life - good food, good wine, good views, good weather etc.

I think recently though, its the Eurotunnel that is to blame. Flying between Heathrow and CDG (or any French airport), or taking the ferry is pretty much swapping one standardized travel experience for another, but taking the train is basically you moving from a backwards country to a modern one. Its really obvious how cramped the Underground is (even a relatively modern line like the Victoria) after going on the RER, and as for the intercity services the difference between even the most modern trains here and the oldest TGV (never mind the Duplex) is vast. Everything about SNCF is demonstrably superior to here, even daft things like ticketing.

if only we could be part of this modern europe

 

[brogdale]

Apart from more port congestion, some foods running short and some inflation, will ordinary folk notice any difference when they wake up Friday in the UK's new relationship with the supra-state

 

[ska invita]

We've always had an inferiority complex with regards to them, as have most of their neighbours (the Germans especially). It is after all the part of Europe thats nearly always been the best part of Europe to live, with the most natural advantages and with the best style of life - good food, good wine, good views, good weather etc.

I think recently though, its the Eurotunnel that is to blame. Flying between Heathrow and CDG (or any French airport), or taking the ferry is pretty much swapping one standardized travel experience for another, but taking the train is basically you moving from a backwards country to a modern one. Its really obvious how cramped the Underground is (even a relatively modern line like the Victoria) after going on the RER, and as for the intercity services the difference between even the most modern trains here and the oldest TGV (never mind the Duplex) is vast. Everything about SNCF is demonstrably superior to here, even daft things like ticketing.

i dont think the tube is the best standard of what a country is like
a lot of british infrastructure is a century old, and its hard to upgrade as a result
i have heard visitors from other countries being surprised how manky and run down the tube is though
fact is the UK has some of the most wordlbeating public transport systems in the world... the rail replacement bus service is second to none

 

[Pickman's model]

Apart from more port congestion, some foods running short and some inflation, will ordinary folk notice any difference when they wake up Friday in the UK's new relationship with the supra-state

Yes

The cucumbers will be bendy

 

[agricola]

i dont think the tube is the best standard of what a country is like
a lot of british infrastructure is a century old, and its hard to upgrade as a result
i have heard visitors from other countries being surprised how manky and run down the tube is though
fact is the UK has some of the most wordlbeating public transport systems in the world... the rail replacement bus service is second to none

It isn't, but it is one of the first things you experience.

I also think this "hard to upgrade" excuse is something that we use far too often; I mean the Victoria Line was built in the late 60s and we basically built (with then modern technology) the same sort of thing as had been seen in 1890, rather than something that was better. Even HS2 is going to be an upgrade on what we have now, rather than bringing us to the same sort of level as they have (never mind being better than them).

 

[The39thStep]

if only we could be part of this modern europe

Aren't most of our railways, energy and utility companies owned or part owned by European companies ?

 

[teuchter]

Everything about SNCF is demonstrably superior to here, even daft things like ticketing.

This really is complete nonsense. How much have you actually travelled on SNCF, outside of the main routes?

 

[agricola]

This really is complete nonsense. How much have you actually travelled on SNCF, outside of the main routes?

Quite a bit, though mainly around Marseille / Montpellier / Nimes / Beziers etc and Angers / Nantes. I especially stand by that ticketing comment, being able to cancel a booking on TGV twenty minutes before departure at no cost to me (as opposed to cancelling a ticket on Avanti with two weeks notice, which cost me £10).

 

[SpookyFrank]

New York Times seems unimpressed

View attachment 245621

Meh. Better in the long run if we turn away from all this financial services bollocks.

 

[editor]

Meh. Better in the long run if we turn away from all this financial services bollocks.

Any ideas on how that laudable aim might be achieved since our manufacturing base is pretty much decimated?

 

[ska invita]

It isn't, but it is one of the first things you experience.

I also think this "hard to upgrade" excuse is something that we use far too often; I mean the Victoria Line was built in the late 60s and we basically built (with then modern technology) the same sort of thing as had been seen in 1890, rather than something that was better. Even HS2 is going to be an upgrade on what we have now, rather than bringing us to the same sort of level as they have (never mind being better than them).

hard to upgrade because of the limited shape of the tunnels
Jubilee line feels modern - Victoria line is 60 years old
Overground trains are based on Japanese trains IIRC, - or someone elses trains anyhow

 

[Pickman's model]

Quite a bit, though mainly around Marseille / Montpellier / Nimes / Beziers etc and Angers / Nantes. I especially stand by that ticketing comment, being able to cancel a booking on TGV twenty minutes before departure at no cost to me (as opposed to cancelling a ticket on Avanti with two weeks notice, which cost me £10).

Did you stop in angers to visit the cointreau distillery and see the fine apocalypse tapestry?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Any ideas on how that laudable aim might be achieved since our manufacturing base is pretty much decimated?

Un-decimate it?

We are well placed to produce a surplus of wind and tidal power for one thing, and cheap power would make other industries more competitive.

 

[agricola]

Did you stop in angers to visit the cointreau distillery and see the fine apocalypse tapestry?

Not the distillery, but the apocalypse tapestry was fantastic (as was the rest of the castle, and the cathedral too for that matter). I prefered Nantes though, especially the museum which was probably the best museum dedicated to a city that I've ever been in.

 

[TopCat]

Apart from more port congestion, some foods running short and some inflation, will ordinary folk notice any difference when they wake up Friday in the UK's new relationship with the supra-state

The sound of bleating will keep us all awake at night for the first week.

 

[TopCat]

Any ideas on how that laudable aim might be achieved since our manufacturing base is pretty much decimated?

Anti capitalists for the City.

 

[Pickman's model]

The sound of bleating will keep us all awake at night for the first week.

After a week in captivity without food the cabinet will be ready to be live exported