The big Brexit thread - news, updates and discussion

[Smangus]

Think yourself lucky you are not in a pay to play position, that's a whole other bullshit economic model.

 

[The39thStep]

Point missed, completely . To reiterate it for you, people had good reasons for voting Brexit. Not liking Bob Geldof is not one. But whatever, tis done now so why not cheer us up with your sunny uplands predictions.

I don’t have any sunny uplands predictions tbh . What point were you trying to make about the pain and misery?

 

[The39thStep]

Pretty smart of them to set up a state of constant friction with the EU, really - it'll give the Tories a convenient scapegoat for when Britain unaccountably fails to prosper as a swashbuckling global free trade giant with a thriving manufacturing industry.

Tbf Mr Grant is part of a pro EU organisation

 

[Lucy Fur]

I don’t have any sunny uplands predictions tbh . What point were you trying to make about the pain and misery?

The short to mid term economic predictions of Brexit are not good. By all means persuade me differently. Otherwise I'm not clear what your trying to achieve with this exchange.

 

[rutabowa]

Blimey. A new economics of it might be necessary then. Maybe the venues that are apparently exploiting the fuck out of these bands might have to share a fraction more. Even if they’re only selling 100 tickets at a tenner a go plus taking at least twice that on the bar, it’s likely they’re handing over something like just 10% of the take. Twice the customers and it drops to 5%. If they want to carry on putting on the bands, they might have to share a little more.

I'm not talking about places that sell 100 tickets, or sell tickets for 10 pounds each, or any kind of exploitation. And it is nothing to do with economics either

 

[sleaterkinney]

So the jeopardy and pain already felt by many including children under successive governments in the U.K. and EU over the last decade or so has just been a picnic ?

I think that leaving the EU won’t solve any of that and I also think that this current government will make it worse. They’ve used the jeopardy and pain and said it’s the EUs fault.

 

[The39thStep]

The short to mid term economic predictions of Brexit are not good. By all means persuade me differently. Otherwise I'm not clear what your trying to achieve with this exchange.

I was trying to achieve clarification about what you meant , that was all.

 

[The39thStep]

I think that leaving the EU won’t solve any of that and I also think that this current government will make it worse. They’ve used the jeopardy and pain and said it’s the EUs fault.

I’ve never felt that leaving the EU in itself would solve it . Equally staying in doesn’t solve it . Only building working class resilience back will make any difference and we are in a difficult period with that .

 

[editor]

Peak reached.

"Give up your silly dreams, son. Music's not for you. Get a proper job."

 

[Supine]

Oh man. I've just seen the figures for fish changes between now and 2026. Utterly insignificant.

 

[Supine]

^ numbers might be hard to read from that. This is better

 

[editor]

I’m confused by this touring Paris, Berlin and whatever thing for apparently €300 a gig. My band are rank amateurs playing local pubs that just want to get a few extra bums on seats and sports clubs for their socials and we still charge £200. And we’re cheap as these things go. Who is a recording artist with an album but only charging £270 for a gig that is dedicated just to them?

It's not unusual for bands to hire venues when they're on tour, or accept a percentage of the door. If the turn out is low, the gig money will be low but if they're lucky, they'll shift a load of merchandise to make up the losses. I haven't seen the new rules for bringing merchandise into Europe to sell post-Brexit, but I'm pretty sure it won't be good news for bands operating on a breadline.

 

[editor]

Blimey. A new economics of it might be necessary then. Maybe the venues that are apparently exploiting the fuck out of these bands might have to share a fraction more. Even if they’re only selling 100 tickets at a tenner a go plus taking at least twice that on the bar, it’s likely they’re handing over something like just 10% of the take. Twice the customers and it drops to 5%. If they want to carry on putting on the bands, they might have to share a little more.

Except they'd be more likely to not book bands anymore - or just go for cheaper, less established local ones. Or stick DJs on instead.

 

[Dogsauce]

I’m confused by this touring Paris, Berlin and whatever thing for apparently €300 a gig. My band are rank amateurs playing local pubs that just want to get a few extra bums on seats and sports clubs for their socials and we still charge £200. And we’re cheap as these things go. Who is a recording artist with an album but only charging £270 for a gig that is dedicated just to them?

Those who do it more or less as a holiday for fun and adventure, not arsed about the money.

Petrol, somewhere to stay, a feed, anything else a bonus.

In the late 90s I was doing gigs in remote bits of the Czech Republic and getting 20-30 Euros shared between two bands, sleeping on someone’s floor, occasionally a decent feed. One place paid us 20 but deducted from that the bar tab for two bands (9 people, mostly hammered), which ended up as 14 euro because pivo was about 20p.

Tours would usually be bankrolled by state-funded German youth clubs with an entertainment budget that’d pay you 250-300 even if there was fuckall turnout, a few of those to fill the diesel tank then head east where anything was a bonus. Some extra cash from records and T-shirts but those were put out cheap or sometimes just traded for things. Kind of like those Sunday league teams that go for a week’s tour in Holland, nobody expects to get paid. Harder these days because fuel is a lot more, fewer squat venues or moneyed youth clubs, much more cost or inconvenience and it’ll be pretty much dead for DIY touring.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Owen Jones makes a lot of sense in this article on Brexit. Brexit is back – and Labour's dilemma has not changed | Owen Jones

I think Owen Jones rarely makes sense on anything: since 2015 as I enumerate in the review of his myopic book below he has since 2015 adopted five different positions. If you wait a couple of months he’ll no doubt shake the dice and come up with a sixth....

Notes From The Borderland - REVIEW OF OWEN JONES 'THIS LAND' & GABRIEL POGRUND and PATRICK MAGUIRE 'LEFT OUT'

KICKING THE MOLTEN ASHES: A REVIEW OF GABRIEL POGRUND & PATRICK MAGUIRE ‘LEFT OUT: THE INSIDE STORY OF LABOUR UNDER CORBYN’ (BODLEY HEAD 2020 £18....

www.borderland.co.uk

 

[Cerv]

and a revised EHIC system has been agreed, and a new version of Erasmus to allow study abroad, this time worldwide, so better than Erasmus.

you're stating as fact that this Turing exchange programme will be better than the long established Erasmus programme. based on what exactly? they've not published any details of it. so you've just an assumption based on the bluster of people who I would remind you were until very recently promising without any doubt that they'd keep our membership of Erasmus, the lying shits.
setting up a global scheme is a worthy aim, but there's no need to pull out of Erasmus to do that. it doesn't benefit you in any way to get your scheme off the ground.
honestly I'd be not at all surprised if this goes nowhere. it only exists as a headline to deflect complaints today as to why they'd want to pull out of the existing partnership. and they've announced it with no detail and not even having any other country signed up in principle yet.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

you're stating as fact that this Turing exchange programme will be better than the long established Erasmus programme. based on what exactly? they've not published any details of it. so you've just an assumption based on the bluster of people who I would remind you were until very recently promising without any doubt that they'd keep our membership of Erasmus, the lying shits.
setting up a global scheme is a worthy aim, but there's no need to pull out of Erasmus to do that. it doesn't benefit you in any way to get your scheme off the ground.
honestly I'd be not at all surprised if this goes nowhere. it only exists as a headline to deflect complaints today as to why they'd want to pull out of the existing partnership. and they've announced it with no detail and not even having any other country signed up in principle yet.

Better in that it will offer many more countries to study in, rather than limiting it to European ones.

 

[TopCat]

A few more days, a few more fag end arguments and its done.

 

[brogdale]

A few more days, a few more fag end arguments and its done.

The realisation, on both sides, that nothing of any substance has changed?

 

[Dogsauce]

Better in that it will offer many more countries to study in, rather than limiting it to European ones.

It’ll involve little more than toadying to the moneyed elite in China and India to send their offspring here to study. Plus it’ll be run by someone like Capita who will trouser most of the funding for their own fees.

 

[Cerv]

Better in that it will offer many more countries to study in, rather than limiting it to European ones.

Erasmus has 34 programme member states plus another 20 partners (not all in Europe btw)
adds up to something like 4000 educational institutions.

Turing has 1 so far.

 

[brogdale]

It’ll involve little more than toadying to the moneyed elite in China and India to send their offspring here to study. Plus it’ll be run by someone like Capita who will trouser most of the funding for their own fees.

A microcosm of Brexit; tinkering ineptly with the superstructure whilst nothing is done to change the privatisation/marketisation of the debt-farming business that neoliberal governments have made of HE.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Erasmus has 34 programme member states plus another 20 partners (not all in Europe btw)
adds up to something like 4000 educational institutions.

Turing has 1 so far.

Turing is how old? Less than a week. Struggling to give a fuck about a bunch of Tarquins jollying it up at foreign unis at my expense tbh.

 

[brogdale]

Turing is how old? Less than a week. Struggling to give a fuck about a bunch of Tarquins jollying it up at foreign unis at my expense tbh.

But that's where Tory Brexit bullshit takes you; rather than focussing on why our kids either don't get the education they deserve, or worse still, sink under a mountain of personal debt to end up un/under-employed.

 

[Yossarian]

Oh man. I've just seen the figures for fish changes between now and 2026. Utterly insignificant.

View attachment 245576

So after more than four years of haggling, British negotiators won a 4% increase over five years in the amount of cod British ships can catch in British waters?

If that's the part Boris Johnson was boasting about, I don't have high hopes for the rest of the deal.

 

[Flavour]

Turing is how old? Less than a week. Struggling to give a fuck about a bunch of Tarquins jollying it up at foreign unis at my expense tbh.

UK participation in Erasmus was always very low but I can assure that across the continent it is far from just the Tarquins who take part, it's the majority of uni students in multiple countries, many of which have much cheaper uni costs and therefore accessibility than the UK.

 

[flypanam]

Not just students either lots of staff both teaching and professional have visited other institutions to teach or for training. I’ve visited Croatia, Romania and was meant to be in Serbia in 2020. All of which helped me understand more about Southwestern Slav literature and drama and help me build a pretty good collection of Balkan literature in the library.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Pretty smart of them to set up a state of constant friction with the EU, really - it'll give the Tories a convenient scapegoat for when Britain unaccountably fails to prosper as a swashbuckling global free trade giant with a thriving manufacturing industry.

A Freeport in every town and a golden age for monkey knife fights.

 

[mauvais]

Pretty smart of them to set up a state of constant friction with the EU, really - it'll give the Tories a convenient scapegoat for when Britain unaccountably fails to prosper as a swashbuckling global free trade giant with a thriving manufacturing industry.

A scapegoat won't save them though - like blaming it on the weather. The pre-Brexit state of friction was a far more useful device because they could make promises rather than excuses.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Not just students either lots of staff both teaching and professional have visited other institutions to teach or for training. I’ve visited Croatia, Romania and was meant to be in Serbia in 2020. All of which helped me understand more about Southwestern Slav literature and drama and help me build a pretty good collection of Balkan literature in the library.

In that case they should cancel Brexit.