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The amount and pace of migration to the UK is unprecedented

I have never given a great deal of thought to the positioning of the Jewish quarters of Moroccan cities, so I'm finding this fascinating. Particularly as I have given thought as to what constitutes evidence for any asserted fact about history.
there are two sorts of facts, here are clear 'facts on the ground', eg a jewish quarter existing which can readily be seen, and there are the facts about its construction - the why, the how and so on. there are lots of sorts of evidence, maps, minutes, inscriptions, newspapers, letters, account books, drawings, diaries and so on and so forth. in the matter at hand the first sort of evidence, archaeological or whatever you want to call it, is clear - you do indeed have a ghetto beside a palace. albeit a ghetto which at its foundation lay between two city walls where there had formerly been a barracks and without obvious means of ingress and egress from other sections of the city. and it's for me that at this point you need to present some evidence of the second sort, of the intention, of the purpose of this plantation. will there be any? i wonder.
 
Seems a decent theory given the positioning of the Mellah and what it is supposed to have replaced. The Mellah was placed in front of the royal palace, and if it was between the outer and inner walls, that would seem only to help the argument - they were semi-protected but not afforded full protection. On that limited evidence, it looks to me like a likely place for a buffer zone to be situated. May be reasons why that's wrong. Whose turn is it to produce the evidence?
 
Seems a decent theory given the positioning of the Mellah and what it is supposed to have replaced. The Mellah was placed in front of the royal palace, and if it was between the outer and inner walls, that would seem only to help the argument - they were semi-protected but not afforded full protection. On that limited evidence, it looks to me like a likely place for a buffer zone to be situated. May be reasons why that's wrong. Whose turn is it to produce the evidence?
if something is between two concentric city walls then there's not going to be anyone coming into it from the north. there isn't going to be anyone coming into it from the south. there isn't going to be anyone coming into it from the east. and it's not somewhere through which people would have had to pass to get to the palace. anyway it's still tanya1982's turn to produce something relating to the intention of the rulers and not mere supposition.
 
there are two sorts of facts, here are clear 'facts on the ground', eg a jewish quarter existing which can readily be seen, and there are the facts about its construction - the why, the how and so on. there are lots of sorts of evidence, maps, minutes, inscriptions, newspapers, letters, account books, drawings, diaries and so on and so forth. in the matter at hand the first sort of evidence, archaeological or whatever you want to call it, is clear - you do indeed have a ghetto beside a palace. albeit a ghetto which at its foundation lay between two city walls where there had formerly been a barracks and without obvious means of ingress and egress from other sections of the city. and it's for me that at this point you need to present some evidence of the second sort, of the intention, of the purpose of this plantation. will there be any? i wonder.
Oh, it's only at that point. Well, why didn't you say before? You actually had (in the last half hour?) processed all the 'evidence, maps, minutes, inscriptions, newspapers, letters, account books, drawings, diaries and so on' you now admit to there being. Your quick mind is one of the most spectacular things I've ever encountered. I hope you intend to leave your brain to medical science.
 
Disclaimer - I am not a Brexiteer, I am generally pro-immigration, my parents themselves arrived as refugees in the 1980s, I live in an area where some 70% of the population is an immigrant or has an immigrant background - not an exaggeration.
--
People seemingly love to point out how the Irish, Huguenots, Eastern European Jews, people of the Commonwealth moved to Britain, therefore we are an immigrant nation. Despite the scale of these migrations being significantly smaller.

In the year ending June 2021, 573,000 people migrated into the UK.
There were 63,089 asylum applications (relating to 75,181 people) in the UK in the year ending June 2022. Probably half of this was attributed to small boat arrivals across the Channel.

Am I the crazy one for thinking this is completely unsustainable?? People are surprised that housing is unaffordable when there is a huge demand for accommodation in London. Mind you, international migrants aren't exactly moving to rural Dorset... they're moving to areas already overpopulated. There are left-leaning opinion makers concerned about increasing automation, meanwhile they're supportive of the working class but simultaneously want to increase migration of low-skilled people to Britain. Do they comprehend how this is diluting the bargaining power of poorer, low-skilled native Brits?

Not to mention people clearly see a rapid change in the cultural character of their local area. Sure cultures change, but this pace of change is unprecedented because it isn't occurring gradually over the course of several decades. If you consider the "cultural cohesion argument" as nonsensical (which is your right), then I presume you will consider "gentrification changing the unique cultural character of an area" to be complete nonsense too?


Are you surprised that people voted in favour of Brexit, or traditional Labour areas voted for Conservatives, or people are increasingly buying into nonsense like "The Great Replacement" conspiracy? I fear that if social democracy does not enforce borders, Fascists will.

Perhaps I am a bit of a biased perspective considering I live somewhere that is the epicenter of immigration.
Hello, I couldn't give a fuck about immigration because I belive people aren't going to want to come here for that much longer.

I'm an optimist who believes that great things will happen to the world, to the extent that people simply won't need to come to our shores to make a living.

In the meantime, I've got some advice for you, because I don't seriously believe that you're racist or that you somehow hate immigrants.

Immigrants, are routinely exploited by middle class liberals who talk a good talk about how they hate capitalism, yet have done very very well from it.

Let's not be fooled, with middle class liberals, it always pays to pay close attention to cause, effect and who really benefits by following the money.

It's no coincidence that areas with the best race relations, are areas free from middle class vermin with all of their fork-tongued divisive shite that divides communities.

Move to a nice working class area free from middle class liberals, you'll find everyone gets on. In the 18 years I've been living up North, I've only had one heated disagreement with an immigrant and that was road rage. It's utopia up here, everyone gets on. London is a shithole because it's the middle class liberals that cause all the problems.

Before moving into the area, double check that none of the fuckers are down the local council. Research the area well.

Next, encourage everyone around you, to cancel the bastards. Research where you're really spending your money. Is that business run by a hopeless middle class liberal, who sends out endless virtue signalling propaganda? Know your suppliers, know your vendors. Avoid anything to do with veganism and always be wary of anyone with a university education, that's a huge red flag.

Encourage your ethnic minority mates to do the same. Explain to them the dangers of middle class liberals.

Build up business relations with immigrants that have links outside of the EU.

Remember, while your getting on with making some serious cash importing and exporting to the Commonwealth, po faced remainers are wasting their time trying resurrect their broken customs union dependent busineses, the mugs!

Error on the side of caution, give Mr Patel your business rather than ANYONE from a traditional middle class background.

Remember, those people don't care about people in this country, let alone immigrants.

All they care about is money and NOTHING else. That's why they endless bang on about the economy when it comes to Brexit, but then try to cover their tracks by banging out about how great socialism is, but capitalism is somehow evil, like they have a heart! LOL.

Here's my red flags:

1. Vegan
2. University Education
3. Carps on and on about immigrant and minority issues like the people they are talking about can't speak for themselves.
4. Feels uncomfortable around people with a traditional cockney accent, treating them like they are a "fly by night".
5. Double or triple barrelled surnames.
6. Complains about gentrification - Normal people sell up and fuck off to just get away from the cunts, while those who complain about gentrification, are really middle class themselves and just don't have the money to be able to hangout with their own. You know, wankers who share the same values, but don't have the dosh quite yet. I enjoy watching those ones, they're mental lol.

That's all for now. If I can think of anything else I'll let you know, but please don't worry about immigration. It will sort itself out. Chin up, don't be a victim and fuck the po faced middle class liberals, they really are a scurge. Hopefully they'll fuck off to France or something.
 
Hello, I couldn't give a fuck about immigration because I belive people aren't going to want to come here for that much longer.

I'm an optimist who believes that great things will happen to the world, to the extent that people simply won't need to come to our shores to make a living.

In the meantime, I've got some advice for you, because I don't seriously believe that you're racist or that you somehow hate immigrants.

Immigrants, are routinely exploited by middle class liberals who talk a good talk about how they hate capitalism, yet have done very very well from it.

Let's not be fooled, with middle class liberals, it always pays to pay close attention to cause, effect and who really benefits by following the money.

It's no coincidence that areas with the best race relations, are areas free from middle class vermin with all of their fork-tongued divisive shite that divides communities.

Move to a nice working class area free from middle class liberals, you'll find everyone gets on. In the 18 years I've been living up North, I've only had one heated disagreement with an immigrant and that was road rage. It's utopia up here, everyone gets on. London is a shithole because it's the middle class liberals that cause all the problems.

Before moving into the area, double check that none of the fuckers are down the local council. Research the area well.

Next, encourage everyone around you, to cancel the bastards. Research where you're really spending your money. Is that business run by a hopeless middle class liberal, who sends out endless virtue signalling propaganda? Know your suppliers, know your vendors. Avoid anything to do with veganism and always be wary of anyone with a university education, that's a huge red flag.

Encourage your ethnic minority mates to do the same. Explain to them the dangers of middle class liberals.

Build up business relations with immigrants that have links outside of the EU.

Remember, while your getting on with making some serious cash importing and exporting to the Commonwealth, po faced remainers are wasting their time trying resurrect their broken customs union dependent busineses, the mugs!

Error on the side of caution, give Mr Patel your business rather than ANYONE from a traditional middle class background.

Remember, those people don't care about people in this country, let alone immigrants.

All they care about is money and NOTHING else. That's why they endless bang on about the economy when it comes to Brexit, but then try to cover their tracks by banging out about how great socialism is, but capitalism is somehow evil, like they have a heart! LOL.

Here's my red flags:

1. Vegan
2. University Education
3. Carps on and on about immigrant and minority issues like the people they are talking about can't speak for themselves.
4. Feels uncomfortable around people with a traditional cockney accent, treating them like they are a "fly by night".
5. Double or triple barrelled surnames.
6. Complains about gentrification - Normal people sell up and fuck off to just get away from the cunts, while those who complain about gentrification, are really middle class themselves and just don't have the money to be able to hangout with their own. You know, wankers who share the same values, but don't have the dosh quite yet. I enjoy watching those ones, they're mental lol.

That's all for now. If I can think of anything else I'll let you know, but please don't worry about immigration. It will sort itself out. Chin up, don't be a victim and fuck the po faced middle class liberals, they really are a scurge. Hopefully they'll fuck off to France or something.
Very special advice there. I can only hope the poster takes the time to thank you. :)
 
Oh, it's only at that point. Well, why didn't you say before? You actually had (in the last half hour?) processed all the 'evidence, maps, minutes, inscriptions, newspapers, letters, account books, drawings, diaries and so on' you now admit to there being. Your quick mind is one of the most spectacular things I've ever encountered. I hope you intend to leave your brain to medical science.
I'm replying to the bit about any asserted historical fact. I didn't say I had them all, it was a list of forms of primary evidence.
 
Tbh Tanya1982, if you'd said in your bit about going to fez that this is what you'd been told, about the rampaging mobs going through jewish streets to get to the Palace I'd have gone 'fair play'. Wouldn't believe it now, mind, it'd be too contrived. I'll have to wait till Saturday and hope to bump into a colleague who used to live there
 
Disclaimer - I am not a Brexiteer, I am generally pro-immigration, my parents themselves arrived as refugees in the 1980s, I live in an area where some 70% of the population is an immigrant or has an immigrant background - not an exaggeration.
--
People seemingly love to point out how the Irish, Huguenots, Eastern European Jews, people of the Commonwealth moved to Britain, therefore we are an immigrant nation. Despite the scale of these migrations being significantly smaller.

In the year ending June 2021, 573,000 people migrated into the UK.
There were 63,089 asylum applications (relating to 75,181 people) in the UK in the year ending June 2022. Probably half of this was attributed to small boat arrivals across the Channel.

Am I the crazy one for thinking this is completely unsustainable?? People are surprised that housing is unaffordable when there is a huge demand for accommodation in London. Mind you, international migrants aren't exactly moving to rural Dorset... they're moving to areas already overpopulated. There are left-leaning opinion makers concerned about increasing automation, meanwhile they're supportive of the working class but simultaneously want to increase migration of low-skilled people to Britain. Do they comprehend how this is diluting the bargaining power of poorer, low-skilled native Brits?

Not to mention people clearly see a rapid change in the cultural character of their local area. Sure cultures change, but this pace of change is unprecedented because it isn't occurring gradually over the course of several decades. If you consider the "cultural cohesion argument" as nonsensical (which is your right), then I presume you will consider "gentrification changing the unique cultural character of an area" to be complete nonsense too?


Are you surprised that people voted in favour of Brexit, or traditional Labour areas voted for Conservatives, or people are increasingly buying into nonsense like "The Great Replacement" conspiracy? I fear that if social democracy does not enforce borders, Fascists will.

Perhaps I am a bit of a biased perspective considering I live somewhere that is the epicenter of immigration.


Population of the UK...
67.33 million (2021)

You're whining about 75000 people a year coming into the UK...

Literally 0.1% increase in the population.

Deaths in the UK in a year..608000..
That's.0.9%...

0.1% < 0.9% by 0.8%

Clearly the UK population is declining EVEN with people coming into the UK.

Ipso facto ... you is a knob.
 
Population of the UK...
67.33 million (2021)

You're whining about 75000 people a year coming into the UK...

Literally 0.1% increase in the population.

Deaths in the UK in a year..608000..
That's.0.9%...

0.1% < 0.9% by 0.8%

Clearly the UK population is declining EVEN with people coming into the UK.

Ipso facto ... you is a knob.
Anyone who starts their thread or post with disclaimer and uses a poor variant on the some of my best friends trope is a knob
 
Tbh Tanya1982, if you'd said in your bit about going to fez that this is what you'd been told, about the rampaging mobs going through jewish streets to get to the Palace I'd have gone 'fair play'. Wouldn't believe it now, mind, it'd be too contrived. I'll have to wait till Saturday and hope to bump into a colleague who used to live there
Oh, there you are, you're back. I went off to listen to the radio there - I thought perhaps your mum had called you in for some spaghetti hoops on toast.

No, it's not just what I've been told in Fes. It's what I've studied and experienced throughout extensive travel around the Middle East and North Africa, and European cities, a bookcase full of books on architecture and urban design - and my personal interest in how that relates to international relations, a great grandmother I was close to who was born in India to a Baghdadi Jewish mother, and what I've seen in Fes.

'Jewish Life in the Middle Ages' by Israel Abrahams is a very good book, but very Eurocentric. There are many others. Nothing I've said had been particularly niche theory, let alone Tanya specific.

I hope you have a lovely time when you go out to play with your friend at the weekend. You must be really looking forward to it. Two more sleeps!
 
Population of the UK...
67.33 million (2021)

You're whining about 75000 people a year coming into the UK...

Literally 0.1% increase in the population.

Deaths in the UK in a year..608000..
That's.0.9%...

0.1% < 0.9% by 0.8%

Clearly the UK population is declining EVEN with people coming into the UK.

Ipso facto ... you is a knob.
I applaud the sentiment, but you forgot about births. ;)
 
Oh, there you are, you're back. I went off to listen to the radio there - I thought perhaps your mum had called you in for some spaghetti hoops on toast.

No, it's not just what I've been told in Fes. It's what I've studied and experienced throughout extensive travel around the Middle East and North Africa, and European cities, a bookcase full of books on architecture and urban design - and my personal interest in how that relates to international relations, a great grandmother I was close to who was born in India to a Baghdadi Jewish mother, and what I've seen in Fes.

'Jewish Life in the Middle Ages' by Israel Abrahams is a very good book, but very Eurocentric. There are many others. Nothing I've said had been particularly niche theory, let alone Tanya specific.

I hope you have a lovely time when you go out to play with your friend at the weekend. You must be really looking forward to it.
Not really, as the word colleague would suggest to any but the most obtuse I'll be working. Still waiting on those 10 or 20 sources you mentioned upthread.
 
I applaud the sentiment, but you forgot about births. ;)
Ah..yes..
Around 608000 a year...
Which is 0.9% increase in population.

So.
Added to 0.1% immigration...it.is still only a 1% increase in population.
Take away deaths of 0.9%
And emigration.....at 573000 a year roughly...which is 0.85% decrease...
That's 1.75% decrease in population.

All in all the population numbers are still going down.
 
Ah..yes..
Around 608000 a year...
Which is 0.9% increase in population.

So.
Added to 0.1% immigration...it.is still only a 1% increase in population.
Take away deaths of 0.9%
And emigration.....at 573000 a year roughly...which is 0.85% decrease...
That's 1.75% decrease in population.

All in all the population numbers are still going down.
According to this


all your numbers are wrong. The UK population is increasing by about 350k a year and net immigration is about 250k a year.
 
According to this


all your numbers are wrong. The UK population is increasing by about 350k a year and net immigration is about 250k a year.
The main culprit is obviously medical research, though, rather than immigration.
 
Ah..yes..
Around 608000 a year...
Which is 0.9% increase in population.

So.
Added to 0.1% immigration...it.is still only a 1% increase in population.
Take away deaths of 0.9%
And emigration.....at 573000 a year roughly...which is 0.85% decrease...
That's 1.75% decrease in population.

All in all the population numbers are still going down.
Population numbers are going up, tbf. There are slightly more births than deaths (although not in 2020 :(, and that is likely to change due to declining birth rates) and slightly more people immigrating than emigrating. Population is going up but only relatively slowly, and certainly not at an unprecedented rate. In the past, the population has gone up far more quickly when people had far more children, and that growth was exponential, while our current growth is not.
 
Also uk is full of ancient old people ageing and needing pensions paying and you don’t get that many pensioner immigrants.
 
Also uk is full of ancient old people ageing and needing pensions paying and you don’t get that many pensioner immigrants.
Certainly. Danny alluded to that previously. Like many rich countries we have an ageing population (low fertility rate but births still greater than deaths) and one way to fix that demographic problem in the short term is to import people. The problem doesn't go away, though. You have to keep importing people.

This is an important point to make against those who complain that immigrants are taking jobs or forcing wages down. Without immigrants the country would be seriously buggered financially. You have to factor that into any calculation of where wages might be in alternative scenarios. Autarky generally has a track record for immiserating populations.
 
It only suggests that the person you will be meeting at the weekend is a person you work with. Maybe some would consider it implausible that they would meet with you in circumstances that weren't obligatory and paid.
You haven't read my post or you wouldn't put that complexion on it. Never mind.
 
Certainly. Danny alluded to that previously. Like many rich countries we have an ageing population (low fertility rate but births still greater than deaths) and one way to fix that demographic problem in the short term is to import people. The problem doesn't go away, though. You have to keep importing people.

This is an important point to make against those who complain that immigrants are taking jobs or forcing wages down. Without immigrants the country would be seriously buggered financially. You have to factor that into any calculation of where wages might be in alternative scenarios. Autarky generally has a track record for immiserating populations.
The country is seriously buggered financially
 
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