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The amount and pace of migration to the UK is unprecedented

The fact that the replies are there for everyone is the point. It's why it doesn't really matter if the OP was trolling or not.
Someone reading the OP thinking "hmm, they seem to have a point with some of this" will read those replies.
I've no idea where you're going with this. My first reply picked out one point - the one to do with refugees - and set the number quoted by the OP in context. Others picked up on other points, such as the obvious one that quoting the number of immigrants without mentioning the number of emigrants is meaningless. Sure, there are some derogatory comments, but there is also meat on there. So what if people weren't always polite? The OP didn't merit politeness.
 
We can agree to differ then, because I don't see it. And that's all that needs saying really.
I think people here must get some value out of the arguments they seem to find themselves drawn into day after day with teucher. Maybe not. I'd probably try and find something better to do if it was all that worthless though.
 
I've no idea where you're going with this. My first reply picked out one point - the one to do with refugees - and set the number quoted by the OP in context. Others picked up on other points, such as the obvious one that quoting the number of immigrants without mentioning the number of emigrants is meaningless. Sure, there are some derogatory comments, but there is also meat on there. So what if people weren't always polite? The OP didn't merit politeness.
Plenty of replies were good and constructive yes. I was really just responding to the suggestion that people getting called racist and so on is a myth, that it's something that doesn't really happen. It does happen; it happens here in amongst other, better reponses.
 
Nobody thinks that hitler happened because Germany happened to be full of evil and stupid people, so any preventative / defusing measures have to start from there don't they. Find it all quite frightening right now, the tone of the 'national conversation'. Looked around tescos earlier thinking did you or you read that mad shit about how we are suffering a dangerous invasion and agree with it, because statistically some of them will have. The terrorist lived round the corner (ish) from me.
 
I think people here must get some value out of the arguments they seem to find themselves drawn into day after day with teucher. Maybe not. I'd probably try and find something better to do if it was all that worthless though.
You would, I do. Different strokes etc.
 
Plenty of replies were good and constructive yes. I was really just responding to the suggestion that people getting called racist and so on is a myth, that it's something that doesn't really happen. It does happen; it happens here in amongst other, better reponses.
For clarity, when I said that it doesn't really happen, I was referring to conversations face to face.

Online is different. On the likes of twitter, you get people yelling at each other. On here, you tend to get what we've had here - bits of abuse thrown around followed by the OP disappearing and measured discussion breaking out.
 
I was looking at this earlier.


I don't think most of the suggested responses here are great. They have too much of the "you're asking the wrong question" tone. It's not that I disagree with what is said, it's that I think it should be more targetted at people's immediate concerns.

For example, if someone thinks that lots of tax money is being spent on "immigrants" then a very strong response is to point out that immigrants pay taxes. That's a pretty straighforward way of trying to change what the typical immigrant looks like in someone's mind: someone paying tax rather than having taxes spent on them. Yes you can also go on about tax avoidance, and maybe it's helpful to get people aware of & angry about that, but also it's not something they can actually do anything about in an immediate sense. It's not answering the immediate question or concern.

Likewise with the NHS, pointing out that an immigrant is more likely to treat you than be holding you up in a queue is something quite immediate and direct. It's very likely that this will match with someone's experience when they think about it. They do mention this, but why is it not the first thing in their suggested responses to that point? Make the easy point first then go on to wider politics stuff.

The responses to the first two items simply don't address the concern that is being aired. If someone's genuinely and seriously worried about their job being taken, what does that answer do to reduce their anxieties?

Why isn't the answer to "migrants are all criminals" simply "they aren't"? If you answer that kind of question with handwaving about how much stronger we could be if ordinary people were united then a lot of people are going to think you're avoiding the question because you are hiding away some sinister statistics that show that in fact migrants are mostly criminals.

Then there is the "overcrowding" or "not enough housing" thing. They don't even attempt to address that directly. Actually I am never sure exactly how to address this myself. There are lots of comments in this thread that do address it: you can point out that there are loads of brownfield sites that aren't used. You can point out that there are parts of the UK that don't have a housing shortage as such, and we could reorient the economy such that there is more employment in those areas. You can point out that governments continually fail to provide sufficient social housing and this is not the fault of migrants. But none of this is really any good to someone with an immediate problem of trying to find affordable housing or housing at all. They don't have the ability to change government policy; even if they did, things wouldn't change on a timescale that would help them with their immediate problem. Therefore, from their perspective, especially in some parts of the UK, it might well be true that their access to housing, in the here and now, is affected by immigration levels. I think that should be acknowledged and not waved away - unless you are able to very directly explain how it is not true. Note that the answer to the overcrowding question in that table literally engages in whataboutery.




Screenshot 2022-11-03 at 10.36.43.jpg
 
For clarity, when I said that it doesn't really happen, I was referring to conversations face to face.

Online is different. On the likes of twitter, you get people yelling at each other. On here, you tend to get what we've had here - bits of abuse thrown around followed by the OP disappearing and measured discussion breaking out.
Fact is though that a lot of, maybe even most of, the discussion happens online now. What happens online is quite important.
 
Pretty even split between people who think calling immigrants an invasion was fine and those who don't.
Does that mean 3/4s of conservative voters are actually frightened or just resentful, buoyed by a bit of tough rhetoric, idk.
Screenshot 2022-11-03 at 11.56.44.png
 
We've been here before of course:


'The shadow home secretary, Oliver Letwin, said today he would not have used the word "swamping" to describe asylum seekers entering the education system. "There is a terrible danger here of slipping into language that's emotive," he said.'
 
Pretty even split between people who think calling immigrants an invasion was fine and those who don't.
Does that mean 3/4s of conservative voters are actually frightened or just resentful, buoyed by a bit of tough rhetoric, idk.
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Yeah can try and explain it with the years of slow drip media saying things like that people have absorbed, but still... it's very depressing, infuriating and sad.

As an aside (actually edited to add; not an aside.... one of the very causes for survey results like above) the BBC had Farage on 2 days ago talking about this subject, as their only fucking guest, AGAIN. It's fucking disgusting they continually do that with him.
 
I’ve thought of a mitigating factor and I’m sticking with it: this question about the word invasion is not a good measure of ‘are you xenophobic’, because people wouldn’t have answered in this way if the UK had experienced an actual invasion in the last 1000 years, so it’s just a measure of how many people have no idea what that word means.
 
I think there's a lot of interesting things shown on that line - not least that even at it's lowest point (in the middle of the pandemic when everyone was trapped indoors), there's still a solid 15% of the country who see every problem through the prism of immigration. It's probably ok to call those guys racists I reckon.
if you had the charity you could argue theres a difference between xenephobia and racism, but im not feeing that charitable
 
Tory voters yes leave voters well fuck off.
The poll quoted shows 73% of leave voters think the invasion rhetoric from the home secretary is fine, the same number more or less as tory voters. Is the leave voters approval of this kind of stuff somehow qualitatively different to the tory voters' approval of it?
 
Fucking hell, I've just read yesterday's "The Sun Says" on the subject of immigration. It's an absolute hatefest. How many millions of people read the Sun?

"BEYOND dropping gold-embossed invitations from a plane over Albania, we can’t think what more Britain could do to entice illegal immigrants to sail over and join us.

Not only do we help them land on our shores to be clothed, warmed and fed, we now put some of them up free in picturesque four or five-star hotels beyond the financial reach of working Brits.

Helping migrants land on our shores and now putting some of them up in picturesque hotels means we couldn't do more to entice illegal immigrants if we tried.
No wonder the migrant accommodation bill has hit £2.4billion . . . such is the Government’s desperation to find ANY beds for up to 1,000 small-boat arrivals a day.

Rishi Sunak may even now reconsider holding them on cruise ships.
This is a scandal the PM cannot defend. But in fairness he is mostly hog-tied by legal problems.

The Modern Slavery Act is so loosely written we have to grant asylum to a huge percentage of Albanian applicants while most EU countries reject the lot.

An industry of left-wing human rights lawyers is on hand to thwart the Government, bog down the process and ensure applicants’ success.
"
 
Fucking hell, I've just read yesterday's "The Sun Says" on the subject of immigration. It's an absolute hatefest. How many millions of people read the Sun?

"BEYOND dropping gold-embossed invitations from a plane over Albania, we can’t think what more Britain could do to entice illegal immigrants to sail over and join us.

Not only do we help them land on our shores to be clothed, warmed and fed, we now put some of them up free in picturesque four or five-star hotels beyond the financial reach of working Brits.

Helping migrants land on our shores and now putting some of them up in picturesque hotels means we couldn't do more to entice illegal immigrants if we tried.
No wonder the migrant accommodation bill has hit £2.4billion . . . such is the Government’s desperation to find ANY beds for up to 1,000 small-boat arrivals a day.

Rishi Sunak may even now reconsider holding them on cruise ships.
This is a scandal the PM cannot defend. But in fairness he is mostly hog-tied by legal problems.

The Modern Slavery Act is so loosely written we have to grant asylum to a huge percentage of Albanian applicants while most EU countries reject the lot.

An industry of left-wing human rights lawyers is on hand to thwart the Government, bog down the process and ensure applicants’ success.
"

Evergreen meme.

1667487312989.png
 
No need to jump at all, you've provided all the evidence I expected
If I hit my head on the ceiling and knocked myself out by jumping at your command, it still wouldn't be enough to satisfy you.

You asked for three or four examples. You can have five - Fes, Marrakech, Rabat, Meknes, Tetouan. The flattering interpretation is that these quarters were built where they were to 'protect' the Jews. Does locking people into ghettos for their own protection sound at all plausible to anyone?
 
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