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Stop the BNP's Nazi rally in Derbyshire on Saturday 15 August (Discussion)

You are aware that what you've just quoted refers to the thread of the same title in the "announce" forum, aren't you?
Actually, probably not or you wouldn't have been stupid enough to quote it, eh?
precisely. You were "crying", according to butchers, about me breaking the FAQ, and then immediately preceded to do the same yourself. Hypocrite. Not really a slur, as a statement of fact.

You didn't hurt my feelings. What's up, can't you take a joke?

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, after all.
that statement would only apply, if you were reciprocating.;)
 
precisely. You were "crying", according to butchers, about me breaking the FAQ, and then immediately preceded to do the same yourself. Hypocrite. Not really a slur, as a statement of fact

No, you were crying about others breaking the FAQ.
 
Moderator. "Please keep posts on this one to details of the rally/arrangements/etc only. "
Hypocrite.
informer3_lead.jpg
 
Firstly rioted, I had to say I absolutely agree with your destroying of butcher's argument.
But before local people thought it was a good idea to protest? Butchersapron might be cool about hundreds of fascists having a party on his backdoorstep, but many ain't having it. Believe it or not, this is happening in peoples communities and they're objecting to it. The fact that UAF wants to hijack the protest shouldn't detract from the fact that the main protest of the day will be formed of local people defending their community.

What local groups are UAF working with? Why no mention in their literature?
Got admit, I was concerned when I first read your post. You're absolutely right that the prime concern of UAF should be to promote the self activity of local anti-fascists, whenever the fascist are active. That's why I asked you for more information on local anti-fascists groups, so I could pass on the information about any self organised groups to UAF, so UAF could do what you wanted them to.

Does Dennis's make you more in agreement with what UAF are doing in this location?
Some info about yesterday's activities (passed on by friend):
At 13:00 hours DCARF members along with the UAF. Packed up stalls and went to surround Derby's only BNP stall of the year.

The slogans used
(especially for you armchair activists):
Derby County's jailed ex-directors; BNP failure on education, health and employment, bankers and bankrupcies.

Result:
vehement, fierce accusations of racism from passing local people ...
The BNP folded their stall after 20 minutes without having being able to talk to a single person.

Other anti-fascists continued to arrive after the BNP's retreat. and they are now setting-up for next Saturday.
 
there is no need for you to pass on any info about local a-f groups to UAF, they know all about them full well - but they choose not to work with them, and to fib about who has organised activities in the past.

Notts and Amber Valley Stop the BNP groups, and the Derby Campaign against Racism and Fascism have organised against Codnor for the past three years, iirr, whilst UAF/SWp finally got round to turning up last year, in small numbers.

If the past is anything to go by, there will be a large group gathered by 11, and then Weyman Bennett will claim that all the nazi's have gone home and that we might as well do the same as it's been a brilliant success.
 
there is no need for you to pass on any info about local a-f groups to UAF, they know all about them full well -
IF true, they fucked up.
Notts and Amber Valley Stop the BNP groups, and the Derby Campaign against Racism and Fascism have organised against Codnor for the past three years, iirr, whilst UAF/SWp finally got round to turning up last year, in small numbers.
AND "At 13:00 hours DCARF members along with the UAF. Packed up stalls and went to surround Derby's only BNP stall of the year." Better late than never? Better to now be seen to be making their aspirations/rhetoric actually fit with what they're doing.


If the past is anything to go by, there will be a large group gathered by 11, and then Weyman Bennett will claim that all the nazi's have gone home and that we might as well do the same as it's been a brilliant success.
ye 'success', is a relative term. Perhaps SW shouldn't accentuate the positive.


BTW, SW recognizes that "UAF/SWp" has been a problem, but not in the way you think.
 
The UAF , as of today, are still promising to Kettle up the event- and with 80 plus coaches going there should be more than enough to do this.
 
as i said at my union meeting when we discussed this last week - is there really much point in 'kettling' a festival, once they're in?

Imagine the coppers in a similar situation elsewhere:

"hah, we got these bloody hippies chief, they're trapped in several large fields near glastonbury, they won't be going anywhere for four or five days..."
 
as i said at my union meeting when we discussed this last week - is there really much point in 'kettling' a festival, once they're in?

Imagine the coppers in a similar situation elsewhere:

"hah, we got these bloody hippies chief, they're trapped in several large fields near glastonbury, they won't be going anywhere for four or five days..."
so what did you OFFER to the trade union meeting as a constructive alternative method of opposing fascism/RWB?
 
actions that only an idiot (or SWP member) would discuss on an open bulletin board.

I note your total inability to say why my intervention was otherwise wrong - because you can't. It's the SWP realising they are behind the game on this one and trying desperately to catch up.
 
so what did you OFFER to the trade union meeting as a constructive alternative method of opposing fascism/RWB?

i would say dont even bother opposing the rwb festival, leave it to the local community who have more of a bone to pick with it, for the sake of a few hundred bnp enclosing themselves in a fence within a field.. let the saddos get their kicks talking shite to like minded knuckle draggers.

especially when its all done with posturing on the front lines.. i for one would not attend this protest, i wouldnt feel as tho the organisers believed in group "unity"... especially if a photo opportunity comes up. i wouldnt trust people of that mentality to look out for, or take care of others at the demo... a demo that aint worth having and i feel promotes the festival with the screams to silence it.
 
actions that only an idiot (or SWP member) would discuss on an open bulletin board.
SO, obviously actions that need to be kept secret from the working class. Actions by a tiny elite, that would deliver the grateful working class a victory against fascism, [one so secret, no one will ever know about. :rolleyes:]

When are you going to learn, you can only oppose fascism through mass action, by Uniting Against Fascism? Just like destroying fascism, can come through emancipation of the working class BY THE WORKING CLASS?

In short, fighting fascism is a MASS activity.
 
SO, obviously actions that need to be kept secret from the working class. Actions by a tiny elite, that would deliver the grateful working class a victory against fascism, [one so secret, no one will ever know about. :rolleyes:]

When are you going to learn, you can only oppose fascism through mass action, by Uniting Against Fascism? Just like destroying fascism, can come through emancipation of the working class BY THE WORKING CLASS?

In short, fighting fascism is a MASS activity.

The UAF aren't actually working for the emancipation of the working class, though, are they? And taken simply as a single issue camapign against the BNP, they're not doing well at all, are they?'

So when we talk about mass action maybe we should start looking to real engagement in political work that will take the wind out of the BNP's sails, rather than pretending that a few street protests and media stunts will in any way address the problem.
 
SO, obviously actions that need to be kept secret from the working class. Actions by a tiny elite, that would deliver the grateful working class a victory against fascism, [one so secret, no one will ever know about. :rolleyes:]

When are you going to learn, you can only oppose fascism through mass action, by Uniting Against Fascism? Just like destroying fascism, can come through emancipation of the working class BY THE WORKING CLASS?

In short, fighting fascism is a MASS activity.

You dont understand about strategy and/or tactics do you? Whilst there is no problem discussing the basic strategy (harassing/frustrating the festie in any way practicable) discussing the specific tactics somewhere like here would be foolish, potentially dangerous and diletantish. So excuse me if I dont do it.

Pretending that you are going to 'kettle' a festival (when all the attendee's are already there) is dishonest, and a joke. THAT is your politics, apparently.
 
SO, obviously actions that need to be kept secret from the working class. Actions by a tiny elite, that would deliver the grateful working class a victory against fascism, [one so secret, no one will ever know about. :rolleyes:]
Pretty much what UAF are doing, then, no?
When are you going to learn, you can only oppose fascism through mass action, by Uniting Against Fascism? Just like destroying fascism, can come through emancipation of the working class BY THE WORKING CLASS?

In short, fighting fascism is a MASS activity.
That's right. It is.
Problem is that while the various Swappie fronts have made a lot of noise about anti-fascism over the last 30 years, they haven't actually had much success in garnering and retaining interest in anti-fascism. Nothing to do with the didactic centralism used to run those fronts though, I'm sure. Must be something wrong with"the masses" for not "getting it".

You know where your cadres were when we were having running rucks with the NF boneheads in parts of SW London in '77 and '78? Having internal meetings about not getting involved, and attending community meetings to tell people on the estates that they shouldn't get physically-involved in defending their own community because self-defence was the same as vigilantism. That's where.

I'd love to see a "united front" against the BNP, and against the hard-right in general, but until your people get over their desire to be in charge of everything, it won't happen. You're a block on revolutionary priaxis, comrade. :)
 
The UAF aren't actually working for the emancipation of the working class, though, are they? And taken simply as a single issue camapign against the BNP, they're not doing well at all, are they?'

So when we talk about mass action maybe we should start looking to real engagement in political work that will take the wind out of the BNP's sails, rather than pretending that a few street protests and media stunts will in any way address the problem.

For some people, headlines seem to be the main route to "address the problem", but while that does make the issues more widely known about, it hardly makes for a coherent critique of, and strategy against, the BNP.
As you say, "real engagement in political work", and preferably at a grass-roots level IMO, will be what engages with the issue, not transient appearances in places, especially when such appearances/mobilisations can have the effect of "disenfranchising" local activists.
 
as i said at my union meeting when we discussed this last week - is there really much point in 'kettling' a festival, once they're in?

Imagine the coppers in a similar situation elsewhere:

"hah, we got these bloody hippies chief, they're trapped in several large fields near glastonbury, they won't be going anywhere for four or five days..."


This will just be more free publicity for the bnp. The bnp inside will be laughing their heads off .:rolleyes:
 
No I fucking won't... I thought you were all against this kind of thing? Why do you sneer at people taking action against them?

ha ha , we may disagree politically but you are spot on there.
I agree.

imo, those who sneer, with no offering of some kind of mass opposition to fascism today, will not be capable of building the mass alternative, that could destroy fascism altogether in future, if they cannot understand something as simple as a twin track approach.


fighting fascism is a MASS activity​
 
You know where your cadres were when we were having running rucks with the NF boneheads in parts of SW London in '77 and '78? Having internal meetings about not getting involved, and attending community meetings to tell people on the estates that they shouldn't get physically-involved in defending their own community because self-defence was the same as vigilantism. That's where.


'Self-defence is no offence' was the line and those in London were doing the same as us ooop north at the time - confronting fascists.

Whose the we?
 
I've argued at length for dealing with the workplace and community issues that are producing electoral support for the far-right on here. You think everyone who is anti-bnp wants to go around shouting nazi-scum at people though so fuck know why i'm bothering telling you.

Surely both tactics are of equal worth?
 
and 2009?

Birmingham’s modern shopping centre, the Bull Ring, reflects a diverse and multicultural British city. On Saturday 8 August it was full of tourists and locals.

Birmingham City, the local football club, was hosting the Spanish team Sporting de Gijon in a friendly.

Families and groups of friends were strolling in the Saturday sunshine. White, black and Asian shoppers mixed with the tourists.

But there was a shadow hanging over the day. Nazi thugs, organised as the English Defence League (EDL) were planning to march into the centre of the Bull Ring that afternoon.

The EDL had paraded through the centre on 4 July chanting anti-Muslim slogans.

The same group had rampaged through Luton on 24 May, attacking Muslims and targeting Asian-owned businesses.

And last Saturday it planned to leaflet the football match to gather supporters for a “rally against Islam” in the Bull Ring at 6pm.

Strong rumours were circulating that the recent murder of an Asian taxi driver was racially motivated.

The attack heightened fears of more racist violence if the Nazi thugs were allowed to repeat their protest.

Local anti-racists were determined to stop them. Unite Against Fascism (UAF), along with community groups and trade unionists, called a counter rally in the city centre for 5pm.

The anti-racist protesters questioned the decision to allow the EDL march to take place. But West Midlands Police insisted it would go ahead.

Cordon

In an email to campaigners the police said that despite “the nature of the march” the EDL “protest is a sign of a healthy democracy and police have a positive duty to facilitate that right”.

By 5pm some 300 anti-racists had gathered. Police quickly formed a cordon around them.

Behind the cordon a second line of police formed, while police vans were parked across the thoroughfare to form a huge barrier.

Police stopped many of the younger people from joining the rally. So they began to gather in small groups outside the cordon.

Among the onlookers word spread that “the BNP” were again trying to march in their town.

A group of young black women called their friends on mobiles. Two white women with pushchairs shouted encouragement to the rally.

Soon two demonstrations were forming, one trapped within the police cordon, the other a spontaneous gathering of young black and Asians—some as young as 14.

A number of speakers, including from the NASUWT teachers’ union and Birmingham Trades Council, addressed the rally.

Sadia from Birmingham UAF told the crowd, “The Nazis came here on 4 July to raise their flag. Can you see them now?”

“No!” the crowd shouted back.

Sam Hargreve, a former Labour councillor, said, “The message is that together we are stronger.” Respect councillor Salma Yaqoob told the rally, “We told the EDL that they will not march in Brum.”

She urged the gathering to remain peaceful and not react to any provocations.

David Hughes, a Birmingham City supporter, joined the rally after the football match. He told the crowd that the EDL received a cold reception when they appeared at the football ground. He said they where disheartened when they realised “that Birmingham City supporters are black, white and Asian.”

Weyman Bennett, joint secretary of UAF, told the rally, “Fascism is a dead ideology that should remain buried”.

At 6pm a huge cheer went up. The rally heard that police had kettled some 100 racists near the town hall in a car park. They would not be allowed to march into the city centre.

But tension continued to grow.

Outside the police cordon a group of some 30 thugs began to gather.

Feeling secure behind the double line of police, they began to goad protesters with anti-Muslim chants.

Those inside the cordon pushed angrily at the police lines but were unable to break through.

Sensing that they were safe, the Nazis burst into a chorus of “Rule Britannia”.

They were on the third line when groups of young black and Asian people, some on foot, others on bikes, rushed at the Nazis from side streets.

They scattered the gang of racists. Many of the Nazis fled away from the rally in panic, others took refuge in the shops. A few were caught.

By 7pm Birmingham’s Bull Ring was under the control of Blacks, Asians, trade unionists and socialists. The Nazis wanted to claim Birmingham city centre as theirs. But they did not pass.

What an utter load of bullshit.
 
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