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The King's speech had sinister overtones and undertones. As said before he didn't address the issue of mass violence inflicted on a people, he didn't talk of mediation. In fact, he just read a dandruffy script written by someone whose mindset has yet to crawl out of 19th century spanish bigotry.

But that's not all. The king appears with many different backdrops during his speeches, yet, for this one the scene says it all. Behind him can be seen a painting of someone holding what looks like a baton similar to the ones used to bludgeon hundreds last sunday, then, when we discover who the painting is of, we see that it is no other then Carlos III, the king who, in 1764, abolished the catalan language and imposed castillian in Catalonia. A lovely fellow, an absolutist despot. The message of menace is clear.

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There has been no sign that Puigdemont was backing off, at least the people I have consulted were convinced he is going to declare independence soon. The Madrid government have ordered the closure of the catalan parliament for monday. The police are still here, I saw 20 today, in plain clothes, drinking in a bodega bar and being loud.

I know a Mosso, I have never seen him so dejected as this week. He was one of two officers on duty at a polling station but could do nothing to stop the hoard of spanish police when they turned up and violently assaulted the place. The urns were taken and some old people had to be taken to hospital.

He said that he thinks the spanish state could do anything and it doesn't bide well.

Spanish unionists (fascists) plan to march in Barcelona on sunday. It will be another national call out and so may be big. Albiol, the PP leader in Catalonia, the one who goaded protestors to try to get them to hit him for the cameras, has said he is prepared to have his face kicked in for his country this sunday. What they are trying to do is paint a narrative of violence and threats in Catalonia where none exists so as to have the excuse to go in heavy handed.
 
Spanish media is on a propaganda overdrive with censorship of protest photos to hide the scale, denial of the police violence, exagerration of police injuries and fabricated stories of violence, threats and division, including people organizing before the referendum to spit on Guardia civil children.

Tele cinco has been blatant in editing footage and spanish state tv has decided to timewarp back to when franco was around. I dread to think what the broader population in Spain are thinking.

Another question is, where the hell are all the spanish intellectuals, famous people and film stars? No manifestos, nothing. There is hardly any voice of condemnation coming from mainstream Spain, other than Podemos.
 
...The Madrid government have ordered the closure of the catalan parliament for monday...

This is weird. From an external perspective the whole fucking saga is beginning to read like and ugly farce. Two sides demonstrating their ability to be the most corrupt and abusive. I have totally lost interest in any political answers, simply because it is becoming more apparent by the day that no-one in Spain has any interest in playing 'fair' anymore.

It has all gone a bit 'fuck any of the rules' which isn't going to help anyone. The rest of the World are already tired of a fucking joke gone very dangerously wrong. Hardly surprising that no-one of any importance wants to be seen to be getting involved. It is just a huge mockery of everything Europe has worked for during the last 60 years.

It is all fucking shit, and extremely fucking sad. Friendships, families, political alliances, and much more are all being risked for something no-one can explain.

Totally fucking crass. Big egos willingly fucking with the lives of ordinary people. Time everybody just ignored them in the hope nobody has to intervene.
 
I have totally lost interest in any political answers, simply because it is becoming more apparent by the day that no-one in Spain has any interest in playing 'fair' anymore. It has all gone a bit 'fuck any of the rules' which isn't going to help anyone.

tbf, the Spanish state seems to be fairly interested in sticking rigidly to the rules, such as they are. It may not be the most productive approach, but I don't see where you can fault them for officiousness.
 
I was poking around looking for a better account of the class forces at work - without much success I'm afraid. Suggestions welcome.

Can't disagree with the quote at the end of it.

Looking at Amor y Rabia's blog I found this longer article posted on Sunday (so written before the Police violence) which takes a very sceptical view of the 'Process of Independence', of the real goals and motives of the neoliberal Catalan government that is leading it, and a critical view of groups which have expressed support for elements of it. Here's a very (very) rough translation I made for myself. Since my knowledge of the situation in Catalonia isn't much greater than my (hopeless) Spanish language skills I can't speak to its factual accuracy although the political conclusions chime with my own view that picking sides in a process dominated by two equally obnoxious capitalist factions is to say the very least a mugs game. Anyhow I think it's an interesting point of view and raises some useful questions.

Too long to post in a spoiler - here's a link to a PDF which can be downloaded, or if your browser permits, read online.

https://my.mixtape.moe/fxnzai.pdf

Short thing recently appeared on DD - more at link:

Whatever happens in the future in Catalonia, it is clear that this will contribute to strong polarizations around the concept of the Catalan nation, and that this vision risks spreading in a non-negligible way to the rest of Europe. Especially since Kurdistan (amongst other places) has already achieved quasi-unanimity amongst “radicals”.

In the present decomposition, everything that can constitute a unit, however fictitious, circumstantial or reactionary it may be, is quickly validated by the various anti-authoritarian currents in search of a revolutionary subject or practice.

In the case of Spain, there are several factors to be taken into account in order to understand what is happening at present, in particular:

– the importance of regional pseudo-identities, more generally, localism (whether cultural or political);
– the disintegration of the revolutionary movements and the evolution towards the ideology of citizenship (already observable with the 15-M), which led to the triumph of Podemos almost everywhere, but also to that of the Catalan right;
-the fact that Catalonia is the richest region in Spain, an essential stake in the struggle between bourgeois factions for ages; the current situation is nothing new, the Catalanists have always played on the pressure on the national state to ensure local control. It has never worked so well.
In the case of the Spanish Revolution, the Catalanists who did not support Franco very quickly opposed armed proletarians and were directly involved in their repression (notably through the “escamots”, an action group of the Estat Catala party) . The old CNTists (no matter what one thinks of their limitations) would surely have been horrified to see that in 2017 the CNT publicly pronounced itself (on its website) in favour of the “self-determination of the Catalan people”, its “right” to choose , etc.
 
"Catalanists", not seen a word like this before, not sure what to think of it.

"Scottist"... "Englishist"... nope, still not sure but it is kinda fun- numbs the tongue. Weirdly, "Americanist" slots right in.
 
tbf, the Spanish state seems to be fairly interested in sticking rigidly to the rules, such as they are. It may not be the most productive approach, but I don't see where you can fault them for officiousness.

They are playing by their own rules. I would accuse them of corruption in so much as they are controlling the media by their own rules. The police violence was also illegal, and only justified by the state. They, themselves are known to be corrupt politically and financially. The Catalan council are also under investigation for serious corruption crimes. Hence, many are saying the whole thing is simply a charade.

What I really can't understand from friends in Catalonia who are in favour of independence is why they seem so willing to trust someone who is obviously corrupt to the point that he is trying to form a government based on an election built on lies. Given all the estimates surrounding the impossible to verify poll, the very best scenario he can present is that less than 40% of the total voting populate want independence. And, yet he still feels justified in pushing for it. Hopefully, a legitimate referendum (and carefully regulated) will happen - this is the only resolution as far as I can see.

For the sake of officialdom, I am actually resident in Catalonia. I do not have the right to vote (or, any interest for that matter), because, I am registered on the Padron (Spanish electoral roll) in Andalucia, and have been for well over 10 years - I could apply for citizenship. I don't like Catalunya. It is the only place in the World where I have been spat at simply for being English. Even Wales is more welcoming. The place just has a lingering fascistic air about it. Something always feels wrong, and slightly intimidating. That said, I have many friends there. My doctor is Catalan and one of the most compassionate people I have ever met. Chose his career simply because he wants to help people (all people) to the best of his ability.

Spain was beginning to frustrate me to the point it just wasn't worth the effort anymore. I am now relocating proper to Portugal. The people here are so open, friendly and welcoming to all. The system suits me better. Spain was my home for a long time. I will continue to take interest, think about friends and watch the news with as much interest as I do with the U.K. But, I have left the country. What is happening in Catalonia now is just a very small example of why the country is becoming so fucked.

Rather than splitting into factions, everyone should unite for a better government. Podemos are offering something very real. The shit happening in Catalonia isn't just distracting from the corruption issues under investigation in Madrid and Barcelona, it is also distracting from a very viable chance for a fairer future for all.

15 fabulous years being based in Spain for me. Will always love the country and the people :)
 
If you had a legitimate referendum now, who in catalonia would believe Spanish media sources about the concequences?
 
If you had a legitimate referendum now, who in catalonia would believe Spanish media sources about the concequences?

If it was seen as being carefully regulated in a transparent way, why wouldn't they believe the outcome? Live exit polls wouldn't be banned surely? The internet is largely beyond state control. I think a formal, monitored referendum would be appreciated by all. It is the only workable option.
 
If it was seen as being carefully regulated in a transparent way, why wouldn't they believe the outcome? Live exit polls wouldn't be banned surely? The internet is largely beyond state control. I think a formal, monitored referendum would be appreciated by all. It is the only workable option.
During the Scots referendum it was hard enough to get people to understand Scotland would have been outside the EU.... SNP was quite effective at portraying media as propaganda and that was a media not behaving as blatantly as the Spanish...

The result is a different matter you'd have some nutters claiming spooks but with the right objective observers should be OK. See the Swiss have today offered to mediate... Though as Will Rodgers once observed more wars have started in Switzerland than anywhere else:'we'll hold your coat and gold..'
 


Spanish police having a great time singing 'a por ellos'... 'lets get them' and singing nationalist songs on a coach while on their way to go and beat up kids and grandmothers.
 
It's being reported here that a spanish fascist is trying to organize a hunt of Catalans in Camden town tonite. They plan to go round smashing windows where they see the catalan Independence flag.

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That was yesterday

yes, just explained it on the call outs thread. The newspaper article went up half an hour ago so i thought it was tonite, however, this individual in the tweet may feel encouraged by what is happening in Barcelona tomorrow and the large demo of unionists (reactionary knuckle draggers) in Madrid today. The danger wasn't just last night.

This evening I watched/grimaced as hundreds of spanish flag waving knuckle draggers streamed past on their way to a bigots rally in my town. They were chanting "viva la guardia civil" to celebrate their violence against the catalan people. Probably about 3000 of them at their rally. Tomorrow there will be thousands of them in Barcelona. Everyone is being encouraged to avoid them like the plague and not rise to the provocation.

The likelihood that Catalans may be attacked in camden this weekend is quite high I think, unless the police have got to this guy first and cautioned him. He was reported to the police from the catalan representives in London
 
yes, just explained it on the call outs thread. The newspaper article went up half an hour ago so i thought it was tonite, however, this individual in the tweet may feel encouraged by what is happening in Barcelona tomorrow and the large demo of unionists (reactionary knuckle draggers) in Madrid today. The danger wasn't just last night.

This evening I watched/grimaced as hundreds of spanish flag waving knuckle draggers streamed past on their way to a bigots rally in my town. They were chanting "viva la guardia civil" to celebrate their violence against the catalan people. Probably about 3000 of them at their rally. Tomorrow there will be thousands of them in Barcelona. Everyone is being encouraged to avoid them like the plague and not rise to the provocation.

The likelihood that Catalans may be attacked in camden this weekend is quite high I think, unless the police have got to this guy first and cautioned him. He was reported to the police from the catalan representives in London

I assume you've seen the Pacha and the Palma stuff. TBH I've been taken aback by the strength and depth of Spanish Nationalism in Spain, it is quite something. They outdo our unionists I think, in number if not in spirit.
 
Things are hotting up here. The fash think it's their turn now to mobilize.

Palma de Mayorca this afternoon. fash attack an independence stand.



And a video to remind people why chanting "viva la guardia Civil" in Catalonia while waving the spanish flag is nothing but a fascist act.

 
I assume you've seen the Pacha and the Palma stuff. TBH I've been taken aback by the strength and depth of Spanish Nationalism in Spain, it is quite something. They outdo our unionists I think, in number if not in spirit.

I'm sickened by it. I saw the pacha video. They are being brainwashed by all their media outlets in Spain, which are creating a narrative that there is violence here. I have heard of schools in Valencia cancelling school trips "because of the "violence". today, I heard some old fuck in the street comparing Puigdemont, the catalan president, with Tejero, the francoist colonel who burst into parliament in 1982 firing shots in the ceiling. The unionists are really really thick.

The newly appointed head of the Guardia Civil in Spain was involved in Tejero's attempted Coup.

 
Bigotry is mobilizing on the streets of Catalonia this weekend.
4000 singing "A por ellos" in the centre of a small city in Catalonia. A por ellos is a wink towards the police violence used against the catalan people on the day of the referendum, it means, "Go get them". They are celebrating the 800 injured and the violation of catalan rights. Many of these people have lived here for years and show nothing but contempt for the locals. They are colonialists.

 
Well, hey Anudder Oik, you are as guilty as any for misrepresenting what is actually happening.

Well, I'm getting a bit confused here. And I do really want to learn what is going on.

So, where is Anudder Oik at present and where is Stanley Edwards? Who lives there or even nearby?

I think it's probably Anudder Oik.

Could be wrong, of course.

(Also, and of no real matter, why do I try to type Stanley Edwards but think it should be Stanley Matthew?)
 
I think it's clear, or as clear as anything can be in this situation, that Spain are going to block UDI by any means necessary - legal, political or physical. Where that leads to is an interesting question, whether socialist, anarcho and working class groups not so much 'join' the indie movement but begin to make it into a different kind of struggle.
saw this earlier, not read it
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I think they let people read a few things without subscribing.
So I have downloaded the thing. Should I post it here?
 
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The far-left separatists who took Catalonia to the brink

Power in the region’s pro-independence movement is shifting back to the radicals
Thousands march to call for Catalonia talks Anna Gabriel, spokesperson of Popular Unity Candidacy, says there is ‘no alternative’ to a declaration of Catalan independence FT OCTOBER 5, 2017 by Tobias Buck in Barcelona Anna Gabriel lives in a flatshare in a modest building tucked away in the bohemian Barcelona neighbourhood of Grácia. The first thing you see as you enter is a poster of Hugo Chávez, the late anti-capitalist leader of Venezuela, and a table stacked with political leaflets. The living room is small and spartan, devoid of books and personal objects. The humble surroundings are a world away from the sumptuous medieval palaces that house the Catalan president and his ministers. But there are many, not least inside the Spanish government, who believe that the rhythm and pace of Catalonia’s escalating conflict with Madrid are dictated not by the official Catalan leadership but by Ms Gabriel and her far-left separatist party. The Popular Unity Candidacy (CUP) holds just 10 of 135 seats in Catalan’s regional parliament, but without them President Carles Puigdemont has no majority to continue his separatist course. That has given the CUP and Ms Gabriel, the spokeswoman of the party’s parliamentary group, sweeping power to shape the political process. More often than not, they have used it to press for a hardline, confrontational stance that could culminate in a unilateral declaration of independence from Spain as early as next week. Ms Gabriel argues that there is simply “no alternative” to such a declaration, especially after the events surrounding Sunday’s independence referendum. The vote, which had been declared illegal by Spain’s constitutional court, was marred by violence after Spanish police tried to interrupt the voting process and confiscate ballot boxes.
 
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