Spanish Political News

[planetgeli]

The EU’s executive has called for the Spanish and Catalan governments to begin talks to resolve the regional independence crisis that has escalated since Sunday’s referendum, but said Madrid had the right to use “proportionate force” to uphold the law.

More than 900 people were injured after Spanish police attempted to halt the vote by raiding polling stations, beating would-be voters and firing rubber bullets at crowds.

Addressing the European parliament in Strasbourg on Wednesday, Frans Timmermans, the vice-president of the European commission, said the images emerging from Catalonia were saddening, but it was clear that the regional government had “chosen to ignore the law” when organising the referendum.

Proportionate force needs to be used against Frans Timmermans. I mean, it would be saddening, but it's clear he's chosen to ignore human rights and come down on the side of state violence. Cunt.

 

[Pickman's model]

It may seem an academic point in the face of the violence of the Spanish state, but I don't think we can talk about 'colonialism' here as though it is the same as colonising Bolivia. Catalonia is a wealthy region and has been a significant player in the social, economic and cultural life of Spain for a long time. The suppression of the Catalan language and so on was a phase that had colonialist shadings but I don't think that's the end of the story - it's not like Catalonia currently occupies the role of most oppressed and exploited part of the nation. Catalonia has also benefited from Spanish colonialism itself, and Catalans have been players in it.

The stupid thing the Spanish state has done is provide a convincing argument that Catalans would be better off under the Catalan elite than the Spanish elite, but in other ways it is not clear that would be the case.

Anyway, I wish the strikers good luck in getting greater control over their own lives, even if I'm not totally convinced of their vehicle for doing that.

Curious you think only poor places get colonised

 

[Wilf]

This will fuck the EU over much more than BREXIT alone is doing. So, assuming nobody's nerve breaks, lots of fragmentation and realignment on the cards.

EU Stage 1 - 'nothing to do with us, we support the Spanish State'
More demos, head cracking.
EU Stage 2 - same piss wet phrases, this time ramped up to go for the jugular by including 'mutual respect'
Direct rule from Madrid
EU Stage 3 - 'we err... could offer mediation, erm... European dream... Boris is a cunt... erm, erm'

 

[Lurdan]

I was poking around looking for a better account of the class forces at work - without much success I'm afraid. Suggestions welcome.

In the course of that search I came across this short political statement published yesterday by the anarchist blog Amor y Rabia (not too clear what relation it has to the anarchist Magazine of that name from a while back - again clarification appreciated). Someone over at libcom has translated it

Spoiler: Amor y Rabia statement

1) We condemn unreservedly the brutal police actions ordered by the central government with the support of the Socialist Party (PSOE) and Ciudadanos, and which only serves the electoral interests of the PP and Junts pel Sí

2) We completely refuse to support a 'Process' inititated and directed by a political caste that is as corrupt and repressive as the government in Madrid and the parties that support it.

3) As a part of the libertarian movement we reaffirm that the objective of anarchism is a world without classes or borders, based on direct democracy and equality.

What is happening in Catalonia is entirely contrary to this: it is cross class and in support of a neoliberal government that is instrumentalising social unrest for its own interests, in the name of an illusory common good and the creation of a new state that would be in the hands of those who previously supported the 'Regime of '78'. The demise of neoliberal globalisation has paved the way for protectionism of an identitarian character.

Amor y Rabia considers it fundamental to struggle against capitalism and to concentrate our forces on fighting class society, focusing our activity on the social question rather than the 'national question', which turns us into pawns in the internal struggles of rival oligarchies.

'Changing bosses is not the same as freeing yourself from them' (JOAN PEIRÓ)

Can't disagree with the quote at the end of it.

Looking at Amor y Rabia's blog I found this longer article posted on Sunday (so written before the Police violence) which takes a very sceptical view of the 'Process of Independence', of the real goals and motives of the neoliberal Catalan government that is leading it, and a critical view of groups which have expressed support for elements of it. Here's a very (very) rough translation I made for myself. Since my knowledge of the situation in Catalonia isn't much greater than my (hopeless) Spanish language skills I can't speak to its factual accuracy although the political conclusions chime with my own view that picking sides in a process dominated by two equally obnoxious capitalist factions is to say the very least a mugs game. Anyhow I think it's an interesting point of view and raises some useful questions.

Too long to post in a spoiler - here's a link to a PDF which can be downloaded, or if your browser permits, read online.

https://my.mixtape.moe/fxnzai.pdf

 

[Pickman's model]

EU Stage 1 - 'nothing to do with us, we support the Spanish State'
More demos, head cracking.
EU Stage 2 - same piss wet phrases, this time ramped up to go for the jugular by including 'mutual respect'
Direct rule from Madrid
EU Stage 3 - 'we err... could offer mediation, erm... European dream... Boris is a cunt... erm, erm'

Umming but mostly erring

 

[gosub]

slow motion train wreck.

Actually in terms of all the other train wrecks going on, this one is happening quite quickly.

The media though has other priorities :"speaking in front of a conference 80%of her MPs couldn't be arsed to go to, Mrs May developed a cough" hold the fucking front page!

Have they tried asking the Catalonians to tweet in English?

 

[butchersapron]

Looking at Amor y Rabia's blog I found this longer article posted on Sunday (so written before the Police violence) which takes a very sceptical view of the 'Process of Independence', of the real goals and motives of the neoliberal Catalan government that is leading it, and a critical view of groups which have expressed support for elements of it. Here's a very (very) rough translation I made for myself. Since my knowledge of the situation in Catalonia isn't much greater than my (hopeless) Spanish language skills I can't speak to its factual accuracy although the political conclusions chime with my own view that picking sides in a process dominated by two equally obnoxious capitalist factions is to say the very least a mugs game. Anyhow I think it's an interesting point of view and raises some useful questions.

Too long to post in a spoiler - here's a link to a PDF which can be downloaded, or if your browser permits, read online.

https://my.mixtape.moe/fxnzai.pdf

Thanks for doing that - this translation and commentary has recently gone up on autonomies (there is a section in the middle fr om the already posted crimethinc section).

 

[Tankus]

events dear boy ....etc.

choices may narrow quite rapidly

....there's currently the begining of capital flight from CatalunyaCaixa , shares are tanking in the other spanish banks ...people aren't stupid after the greek farce where accounts were frozen then skimmed , where a greek euro became effectively worth 90c of a German one in a greek bank account ....

Very easy for a Catalan to pop over to France ....probably got family there ....

Banks runs next week maybe ?

dunno

 

[Raheem]

events dear boy ....etc.

choices may narrow quite rapidly

....there's currently the begining of capital flight from CatalunyaCaixa , shares are tanking in the other spanish banks ...people aren't stupid after the greek farce where accounts were frozen then skimmed , where a greek euro became effectively worth 90c of a German one in a greek bank account ....

Very easy for a Catalan to pop over to France ....probably got family there ....

Banks runs next week maybe ?

dunno

i think no-one over there is worried about any of that. There was this bus on TV with how much Catalonia sends to Madrid each week on it.

 

[where to]

I saw the earlier discussion on voter turnout etc. I did some sums on Sunday night and the Yes vote had support from a similar %age of the electorate (37%) as the decisive Leave and Yes votes in the UK EU and Scottish indyref referendums. I don't think you could call the process free or fair though. And I suspect a proper referendum would require a higher %age of electorate to win, as turnout would probably beat even indyref.

The whole EU debate though is a red herring surely. It is NATO membership and the alliance with Spain through that organisation which prevents EU nations speaking out, not membership of the EU. When/ if the UK leaves the EU, our position will not change on matters like this one little bit.

Feels like Puigdemont is preparing a climb down tonight. I also see Colau the Barca mayor is not backing a UDI.

 

[Wilf]

Feels like Puigdemont is preparing a climb down tonight. I also see Colau the Barca mayor is not backing a UDI.

Which is probably the only thing he can do - but also looks a bit Grand Old Duke of York.

 

[Tankus]

i think no-one over there is worried about any of that. There was this bus on TV with how much Catalonia sends to Madrid each week on it.

Bet theres more than a few , with buttons to push ,very worried about it ....and also see leverage...

 

[butchersapron]

Anarchist Unions Take Lead in Catalonia General Strike

vs

But basically, yesterday was a pretty frightening and effective attempt by the bourgeoisie to appropriate the tool of the general strike

 

[gosub]

i think no-one over there is worried about any of that. There was this bus on TV with how much Catalonia sends to Madrid each week on it.

do people actually believe the stuff written on buses?

 

[Wilf]

do people actually believe the stuff written on buses?

You wait for a shitty advertising slogan, then two come at once.

 

[Wilf]

Feels like Puigdemont is preparing a climb down tonight. I also see Colau the Barca mayor is not backing a UDI.

Looks like Madrid have done him a favour and stopped him having to press the button:
Spain suspends Catalan parliament session in attempt to block independence
Madrid are now seemingly committed to intervening at every stage, rather than letting it unfold and stopping it afterwards. Not sure if members of the parliament will turn up and try to get in. Massively symbolic if they do and get turned back. Puigement must be happy the way this is going, probably maximising support even from anti-independence Catalans.

 

[butchersapron]

It was the Catalan Socialist Party that brought the case to suspend the session.

 

[Wilf]

It was the Catalan Socialist Party that brought the case to suspend the session.

Aye, I know. I was just wondering though how that plays out, whether it marginalises the socialists, whether it becomes a focus for the next demo.

 

[Chz]

Looks like Madrid have done him a favour and stopped him having to press the button:
Spain suspends Catalan parliament session in attempt to block independence
Madrid are now seemingly committed to intervening at every stage, rather than letting it unfold and stopping it afterwards. Not sure if members of the parliament will turn up and try to get in. Massively symbolic if they do and get turned back. Puigement must be happy the way this is going, probably maximising support even from anti-independence Catalans.

Yeah, I don't understand that. Puigement was stuck in a corner, having to decide between keeping a promise on a referendum that couldn't be called fair by even the most generous observer, or basically giving in. If you wanted to undermine him, let him make that choice. It's sure to alienate people either way. Instead they bolster support. What numpties.

 

[Raheem]

Yeah, I don't understand that. Puigement was stuck in a corner, having to decide between keeping a promise on a referendum that couldn't be called fair by even the most generous observer, or basically giving in. If you wanted to undermine him, let him make that choice. It's sure to alienate people either way. Instead they bolster support. What numpties.

Think you're right. But maybe there's a likely scenario where Puigement puts the vote to the parliament, it fails, he calls an election, then the nationalist grouping gets over 50%. I can see logic from Madrid's pov to wanting to just cut off his ability to dictate the pace.

 

[agricola]

Think you're right. But maybe there's a likely scenario where Puigement puts the vote to the parliament, it fails, he calls an election, then the nationalist grouping gets over 50%. I can see logic from Madrid's pov to wanting to just cut off his ability to dictate the pace.

There is no logic in what Madrid are doing; if there was then they'd let him declare UDI and then be invited in a month later when reality dawned on them all.

 

[Raheem]

There is no logic in what Madrid are doing; if there was then they'd let him declare UDI and then be invited in a month later when reality dawned on them all.

But what if UDI isn't his gameplan? In the scenario I suggested above, he doesn't do that.

 

[agricola]

But what if UDI isn't his gameplan? In the scenario I suggested above, he doesn't do that.

In your scenario yes, but then he has repeatedly said he will declare independence this weekend or shortly after.

 

[gawkrodger]

Another for the 'I so wish this is true' column

 

[Raheem]

In your scenario yes, but then he has repeatedly said he will declare independence this weekend or shortly after.

But he's saying the parliament will vote on it. In theory, he should be able to get the votes, but maybe it wouldn't be so straightforward, given the enormity of the decision.

But more generally, Madrid are not in control of events as long as the catnats are left with their political levers.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think one thing we can be sure of is that nobody is currently in control of events.

 

[Wilf]

I think it's clear, or as clear as anything can be in this situation, that Spain are going to block UDI by any means necessary - legal, political or physical. Where that leads to is an interesting question, whether socialist, anarcho and working class groups not so much 'join' the indie movement but begin to make it into a different kind of struggle.

 

[weltweit]

As I understand it had Spain permitted an independence vote the likely result could probably have been no, but now, after Catalans have seen the treatment Spain is willing to dish out to them, the voting balance may well have changed in favour of independence.

 

[Poi E]

How many federal military bases are there in Catalonia?

 

[Anudder Oik]

events dear boy ....etc.

choices may narrow quite rapidly

....there's currently the begining of capital flight from CatalunyaCaixa , shares are tanking in the other spanish banks ...people aren't stupid after the greek farce where accounts were frozen then skimmed , where a greek euro became effectively worth 90c of a German one in a greek bank account ....

Very easy for a Catalan to pop over to France ....probably got family there ....

Banks runs next week maybe ?

dunno

I don't think it's capital flight. Bank Sabadell is changing it's social address.