Spanish Political News

[Riklet]

Podemos would have to be crazy to start going on about fucking Venezuela.

Just as well they wont.

FWIW, I really doubt Colombia's murder rate is as high as Venezuela's right now. edit: almost half, and falling rather than rising, id imagine.

 

[Lo Siento.]

They also vary a lot in how political they are. Some have always been political. Some feel driven to some protesting by what they see as the destruction of their country. Some are fairly apolitical or at least don't tend to talk about government or opposition. They also vary in how much and in what way they blame the government for the violence, but there is one thing they all have in common. They all talk about two striking features of the Venezuelan situation: the violence and the shortages. Of those two, the violence is the one they've told me more about. Everyone has some horror story or other. Everyone knows people who have been murdered or have only just escaped being killed. The shortages of loo paper have been reported in the British press, going to the loo being an activity of enduring fascination to the British, and on the back of that story other shortages are mentioned (worst of all: corn flour, for making 'arepas'), but I'm not sure if people are aware of the level of violence in Venezuela. Maybe it was just me who had no idea, but I think I read a lot more about the place than the average Briton and I don't think the epidemic of murder was ever mentioned by the reports I read from people writing in solidarity with the Bolivarian Revolution.

Although the murder rates are much worse in Venezuela, you would have a similar conversation with pretty much any Latin American immigrant to Spain. I once drove through Buenos Aires after dark with a middle class Argentinian family who were clearly shitting themselves the whole way through the city and doubly so when they drove past a "villa" (slum). Most of their conversations revolved around crime and experiences of crime and I've had similar ones with Chileans, Colombians and Mexicans.

I'd hope that the Boys from the Complu would have something more interesting and better informed to say about the violence than you!

The high murder rate in Venezuela is related to a variety of factors: it's a key transit point for drugs and people, it has a very corrupt police force and there are lots of guns in private hands. None of these factors apply to Spain to anywhere near the same degree and it's not really a relevant comparison. At least, it's no more relevant to say "if Podemos wins the murder rate will spike like in Venezuela" than it would have been relevant to say in 2011 that "if Rajoy wins the murder rate will spike like when Pepe Lobo took over in Honduras"

Maybe in some other context some bit of anarcho-wotsitry might be interesting (preferably expressed a little more clearly than in your anarcho-waffle above), but here it is irrelevant and seems to help you miss the point entirely. For me, one of the most important points to raise about the Bolivarian socialist revolution is NOT whether the enterprises that have been expropriated work well, or what the problems are with nationalised or municipalised or co-operative workplaces or whether there are better ways of doing things, let alone about how they might compare with some anarcho-dreamland. The question is whether the expropriations in Venezuela lead to anything much more than the non-operation on the workplace and its later purchase at a very low price by a Bolivarian who will become rich once the country returns to business as usual.

I'd say the former question - whether or not different forms of nationalised industry work - is far more relevant than the latter question. I mean we know that corruption is a feature of the Venezuelan state but it's a pretty massive component of the Spanish state too. Unless there's evidence that the whole programme is aimed at such an outcome or that such transferrence of ownership is the general rule for nationalised businesses then it's a pretty minor question.

OK, you don't think this is relevant to Spanish politics, but it is highly relevant to understanding the leadership of Podemos and what they want and Podemos is now very much part of the Spanish political conversation.

Which bits are "highly relevant"? Crime management in drug wars ground zero? or worker self-management in a capitalist economy?

 

[Favelado]

Iglesias and Aguirre head-to-head the other night. Espe looks stupid because she's spent a month accusing Iglesias of nonsense. If you're just trying to spread misinformation, best not give the other side the chance to correct you live on television. Just do your smearing and run away.

"I've been dying to talk to you Ms. Aguirre. Are you any calmer? I've been worried about you because you've seemed a bit wound up recently."

Laughing out loud is the internet slang I believe.

When questioned about Venezuela, Iglesias points out that the current government's biggest arms customer in 2012 was .......... Venezuela.

By the way, Iglesias says "I'm against ETA's terrorism - end of story!" after this clip finishes. Don't know why they've cut that out.


Highlights at the top. Full version below.

 

[Coolfonz]

Here is an interesting article about what the British left can learn from Podemos, there is a lot in there that's interesting but I especially like this.



Just where is the British equivalent of La Tuerka or Democracy Now or even more limited examples like the excellent podcasts from Richard Wolff or the Left Business Observer? Why is the British left so deficient here in ways that the left isn't in other countries?

Check the comments on Left Unity's site under that article. Some amazingly dismissive of Podemos despite the fact they got 5 MEPs and the British left got completely fucking ignored. Egos, posturing, (very small) power structures, calling people `comrade` like Wolfie Smith was documentary.

 

[Favelado]

I would just like to draw everyone's attention to how Espe is at Thatch-factor 11 in that little photo of her in the bottom left of the Youtube preview.

I'm becoming more obsessed with her than she is with Iglesias.

 

[Lo Siento.]

Favelado Your favourite person again - apparently Catalonia is a "regime" where the CiU regional government robbed with impunity whilst accusing Spain of robbing them. [Actually true as far as it goes, but Aguirre's got some "cara" saying so, given Barcenas, Gurtel, Camps etc etc.]

At this point it's becoming clearer and clearer that all this has very little to do with actually attacking these other parties and everything to do with building Aguirre's reputation with the PP's base.

 

[Favelado]

Favelado apparently Catalonia is a "regime" where the CiU regional government robbed with impunity whilst accusing Spain of robbing them..

It's a great demonstration of her warped mentality though isn't it? Every single political event is a trigger for her to shout "BAD CATALANS" OR "ETA". This is a clear example of the "casta" in Catalonia behaving exactly the same as everywhere else in Spain (or across the border in Spain depending on your politics) and it gets turned into "fucking whinging Catalans". As if this case of personal corruption negates any of the independence arguments put forward. In fact, it's exactly this kind of shite from PP voters and the right-wing media that has Catalans hanging senyaras on their balconies and begging to leave. I've lived with Catalans (both in Barcelona and Madrid) and they come home ranting about this kind of rubbish they see or hear as they go about their daily lives.

If Catalonia does ever go it alone, Spain will only have itself to blame. The Generalitat's somewhat censorial tendencies towards anything not of an overtly pro-independence nature used to bother me when I lived over there. However, if I was Catalan I'd be fucking sick of litening to Spanish politicians and would be desperate for independence now. The more PP talk, the more likely they are to destroy the thing they profess to love. They're idiots. You want this magical unified Spain that you masturbate yourselves into a frenzy to most nights? Try using some emotional intelligence and incorporating it into your rhetoric and policies.

I agree with you about Aguirre. Is there any chance of a 2015 PP coup? I've assumed not but I don't know how things work here when the polls start to get especially gloomy. Or would she want to go for leadership for the following elections?

 

[DairyQueen]

*vomit*

I could draw a better picture of the king of spain than that and I am shit at drawing.

 

[Favelado]

This week has been dominated by the news about Jordi Pujol, who was the president of the Catalan government and the plundering of public money for his family. It comes at a sensitive time as Spain's Prime Minister meets the current Catalan government leader as they try and do some horse-trading over the future of Catalonia.

El Mundo's story today is that the Interior Ministry estimates the Pujol family fortune at 1.8 billion euros and that his eldest son was running around the country with briefcases stuffed full of 500 and 200 euro notes. The son's ex-girlfriend has been on television all week spilling details of the family's extravagant lifestyles.

Obviously, much of the Spanish press will do anything it can to stick it to the Catalan establishment, as part of their doomed dreams of keeping Spain exactly the same as it has been since 1978 until the end of time, but this doesn't mean that there's anything untrue about this. It looks like the Pujols have filled their boots full to the very top, after making sure they had a bigger boot collection than Imelda Marcos to start with. All this has long been rumoured, but this week was finally admitted by Pujol Sr. He admitted that he'd been fiddling his tax returns for no less than 34 years.

El Pais have stories on this in English. This is going to run for the next two or three years at least. A massive story.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2014/07/29/inenglish/1406629028_653534.html

For Spanish speakers, here's Jordi Pujol on TV a couple of years ago, claiming both that the crisis was making life difficult for his family, and that he had never personally been tempted by corruption.

 

[Favelado]

Up to one year in prison for Aguirre a possibility after her hit-and-run on Gran Vía!

Oh please. Oh please.

http://www.publico.es/politica/5425...ediencia-castigado-hasta-con-un-ano-de-carcel

Please.

 

[Favelado]

Ana Botella has resigned as mayor of Madrid after a tragic-comic spell running the city. Ridiculed for fucking up the Olympic bid with her infamous "Cafe con leche" speech; despised for going on a Portuguese spa holiday hours after 5 teenagers were crushed to death in the Madrid Arena disaster; fucking up the sanitation contracts so Madrid was covered with hundreds of tonnes of rubbish for a week; all this amongst other administrative wonders.

She says she feels it's mission accomplished. No-one, not even PP voters will miss her.

Guess who's waiting in the wings? You've guessed it!

Depends if she's in chokey though. I bet she won't be.

 

[J Ed]

Emilio Botín's dead, his daughter is leaving the UK operation to take over as Santander CEO (the Spanish oligarchy is a little bit North Korea). May he rest in hell, hopefully his daughter will join him sooner than expected.

 

[Favelado]

Emilio Botín's dead, his daughter is leaving the UK operation to take over as Santander CEO (the Spanish oligarchy is a little bit North Korea). May he rest in hell, hopefully his daughter will join him sooner than expected.

Yes, a fair bit of chat around the city about Botín today. Very big news.

 

[JHE]

Ana Botella has resigned as mayor of Madrid...

That's a bit misleading, I think.

She's announced she won't stand for reelection next year, but she hasn't resigned. She remains mayor and expects to remain mayor until the end of her term of office.

 

[Favelado]

That's a bit misleading, I think.

She's announced she won't stand for reelection next year, but she hasn't resigned. She remains mayor and expects to remain mayor until the end of her term of office.

True. Good correction.

 

[Lo Siento.]

Up to one year in prison for Aguirre a possibility after her hit-and-run on Gran Vía!

Oh please. Oh please.

http://www.publico.es/politica/5425...ediencia-castigado-hasta-con-un-ano-de-carcel

Please.

Spanish Justice system for rich people is positively glacial in terms of speed, so breathholding ill-advised

 

[Favelado]

There is now a Plaza de Margaret Thatcher in Madrid. Inaugurated the other day by our idiot mayor. Aguirre involved in this too. I'm not sure I can just let it be there without vandalising it, but I'll never afford the inevitable fine.

http://www.huffingtonpost.es/2014/09/15/plaza-margaret-thatcher_n_5821596.html
http://blogs.publico.es/tremending-...al-hipodromo-podriamos-llamarlo-rita-barbera/

 

[Threshers_Flail]

Sure we can do an urban whip round fav!

 

[J Ed]

Someone else had the same idea http://www.theolivepress.es/spain-n...ised-less-than-24-hours-after-being-unveiled/

 

[Favelado]

Thatcher Square now renamed "Exiled Youth Square". Fucking cool.

 

[butchersapron]

That's brilliant.

Vid here.

 

[treelover]

Podemos second in polls according to this image, is this correct?

 

[JHE]

Yes, according to a poll conducted by Sigma Dos and shown on Telecinco (as in your pic).

Other news about Podemos: They have conducted an online vote to decide on various political and organisational questions. The Iglesias faction has won hands down, with about 80% of the votes. The Trots of Izquierda Anticapitalista have been defeated. According the the rules just voted on, you cannot be elected to the executive (or whatever they have decided to call it) if you are a member of another nation-wide party - like, er, Izquierda Anticapitalista. What will the Trots decide to do? Hang on in there, I expect, but it could get (even) nastier.

One of the interesting things about Iglesias and his mates (the Boys from the Complu) is that they really seem serious about winning elections and are fishing for votes far beyond the usual far left voters and, indeed, beyond the moderate left-wing voters.

In some of his recent statements Iglesias reminds me a bit of two (very different) politicians: Tony Blair, in his efforts to reach out to and attract people who would normally vote for the right, and the early Chavez, when he claimed that he was neither on the right nor the left and that the terms right and left were no longer relevant. The Iglesias version of this ploy is to say:

• Podemos' policies are ones which moderate social democrats would have supported 20 years ago and
• although he personally is on the left, the Podemos project is a vehicle also for people who are not on the left and
• how pleased he is to have been stopped in the street by people who tell him they are on the right but will vote for Podemos

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

What specific policies do Podemos have that they believe help them reach beyond the trad left?

It's probably a good thing for Podemos if Isquierda Anticapitalista have been given a little drubbing, it probably means they will last a bit longer.

 

[J Ed]

In some of his recent statements Iglesias reminds me a bit of two (very different) politicians: Tony Blair, in his efforts to reach out to and attract people who would normally vote for the right, and the early Chavez, when he claimed that he was neither on the right nor the left and that the terms right and left were no longer relevant. The Iglesias version of this ploy is to say

An interesting comparison there. Curious particularly that you compare Iglesias to both early Chavez and Blair since Chavez initially claimed to endorse Gidden's Third Way schtick and only moved to the left after the abortive coup.

 

[JHE]

What specific policies do Podemos have that they believe help them reach beyond the trad left?

I think there are two things they might reasonably hope to get some votes from people who are not normally left-wing voters.

One is over debt repayments. Lots of Spaniards - and not only left-wingers - think that Spain (and the other PIGS) are being harshly treated by the Troika and Mrs Merkel.

The other is opposition to corruption. Obviously, most people are sick and tired of the thieves. If the thieves are perceived as 'the caste' that Iglesias and chums keep talking about [the term seems to me to mean the same here as what some people elsewhere call the political class], Podemos could benefit. Podemos has a reasonable claim to be the only nationwide political force that has not had major corruption scandals. For example, the amazing case of the special credit cards for people appointed to run Caja Madrid came to light quite recently. The greedy bastards who spent hundreds of thousands of euros on themselves were not just from PP and the employers organisations, but also from PSOE and the United Left - ie the Communists and friends - and both the two main unions. Podemos can present themselves as clean, though some may be cynical enough to think that's only because they haven't had the chance to put their snouts in the trough yet.

(I also think this verbal (semi-)rejection of left and right may appeal to a certain strand of 15M people. I mean the people that were always hostile to the established left and the unions as well as the right.)

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

(I also think this verbal (semi-)rejection of left and right may appeal to a certain strand of 15M people. I mean the people that were always hostile to the established left and the unions as well as the right.)

Interesting thanks.

I think your last point is particularly interesting from a UK standpoint and is partly what UKIP has/could/tries sometimes to achieve in reaching out to old Labour voters.

Not saying that there is room for a Podemos in the UK as our electoral system and the current social system both mitigate against it - but there is something that could be learned there...

 

[J Ed]

It is also worth reminding ourselves, in terms of attracting traditional right-wing votes, that things are a lot worse in Spain. The right-wing media is boasting about the fact that their overall unemployment rate has fallen to 23.7%. As of May Spanish youth unemployment stood at 55%.

A lot of politics in Spain is tribal and comes as a package as well, so a lot of people aren't right-wing because of some sort of unconditional attachment to neoliberal economics. So no matter how much you may genuinely like bullfighting and hate gays it's difficult to deny the reality of what is happening when your sprog and all your friends' sprogs are unemployed, or indeed if you are one of those sprogs.

 

[sim667]

I came in here to hopefully try and find out what was happening with the catalunya referendum (my folks were asking, they live there), but my mind has been blown by the complicatedness of what you've all be discussing.....

 

[DotCommunist]

I came in here to hopefully try and find out what was happening with the catalunya referendum (my folks were asking, they live there), but my mind has been blown by the complicatedness of what you've all be discussing.....

the govmnt have blocked an actual vote and are now also trying to block a symbolic one. Not sure why. Spite or fear of embarrassment?