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In the pub tonight most people said they favoured Nicola Sturgeon. What a pity this is S E UK..

butchersapron said:
So are we we saying all nationalism is bad here or pointing out that unionism is based on a different nationalism?

I'm confused by the nationalist surge and some of its supporters.
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Wouldn't have though that unionism has much to do with nationalism.
 
coley said:
And who's doing the nationalism at the moment?
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/william-hague/11559458/William-Hague-pledges-income-tax-rate-just-for-England-to-take-power-away-from-Scots.html

England will have its own rate of income tax within one year under Conservativeplans to ensure that Scottish Labour and SNP MPs are never able to “dictate” what happens south of the border, William Hague has said.

Mr Hague will on Friday unveil the Conservative Party’s English manifesto alongside David Cameron to ensure that Scottish MPs can no longer have a deciding say on rates of taxation for English families.
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brogdale said:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/william-hague/11559458/William-Hague-pledges-income-tax-rate-just-for-England-to-take-power-away-from-Scots.html
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A Conservative government will within 100 days of the general election, introduce legislation to ensure that English MPs have a veto over laws applying only to their constituents.

He accused Ed Miliband of showing “arrogance” by ignoring the needs of English voters by refusing to back plans to have “English votes for English laws”.

Seems fair enough to me, given the devolution already introduced and the further devolution promised, then Scotland will be fairly self governing, without much interference from other non Sottish parties, so why should they be able to meddle in non Scottish affairs?
 
coley said:
A Conservative government will within 100 days of the general election, introduce legislation to ensure that English MPs have a veto over laws applying only to their constituents.

He accused Ed Miliband of showing “arrogance” by ignoring the needs of English voters by refusing to back plans to have “English votes for English laws”.

Seems fair enough to me, given the devolution already introduced and the further devolution promised, then Scotland will be fairly self governing, without much interference from other non Sottish parties, so why should they be able to meddle in non Scottish affairs?
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You did ask. That's the Conservative and Unionist party.
 
Damn those meddling perfidious Scots. They only started their pot-stirring when they were offered a crack at independence. Before that they knew their place and kept their traps shut.

Seriously. Scotland has an independence referendum and the rhetoric from south of the border starts winding back 700-odd years...
 
G
Nylock said:
What?! Please tell me you're kidding....
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Go on then, educate me, IMO we have a 'union' which though imperfect has worked well enough for 300 years, but many Scots nationalists now seem to want to break away from that union?
 
Nylock said:
Damn those meddling perfidious Scots. They only started their pot-stirring when they were offered a crack at independence. Before that they knew their place and kept their traps shut.

Seriously. Scotland has an independence referendum and the rhetoric from south of the border starts winding back 700-odd years...
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From who?
 
coley said:
G

Go on then, educate me, IMO we have a 'union' which though imperfect has worked well enough for 300 years, but many Scots nationalists now seem to want to break away from that union?
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Just stop, put it down to a bad week, a new drink, something, but please stop.

I don't know how people have been so patient so far.
 
Nylock said:
Damn those meddling perfidious Scots. They only started their pot-stirring when they were offered a crack at independence. Before that they knew their place and kept their traps shut.

Seriously. Scotland has an independence referendum and the rhetoric from south of the border starts winding back 700-odd years...
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How's it winding back 700 years?
Like I said, I'm a unionist, I would like to see the union remain, but not at any price, no region should be able to demand a bigger share of the cake than any other, I would love to see a Scottish Labour Party help take the Tories to the cleaners, but the SNP? No thanks.
 
Nylock said:
Mostly tories, the r/w newspapers and people that think unionism is not another form of nationalism and that UK nationalism (unionism) is somehow more cuddly than the scottish sort.
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See this sort of thing is like the religious claiming that all thought is religious or just an inversion of religious thought based on the same logic (ah so dawkins is your god-you're just like me). Support of the union is non-commital so what stuff in england and to suggest this disinterest is of the same order of the ideological nationalism of the 45% in scotland is just wrong. And it's really really insulting.
 
butchersapron said:
Any understanding of what you're on about. Lots of people have tried very patiently to help you here. I'm not going to.
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Fair enough butchers, but we have been screwed for years by the neglect from the south now we look like being screwed by opportunists in the North, forgive me for seeming to lose a little objectivity.
 
coley said:
How's it winding back 700 years?
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Surely you have seen the newspapers this week, heard the politicians and even read your own statements on this?

coley said:
Like I said, I'm a unionist, I would like to see the union remain, but not at any price, no region should be able to demand a bigger share of the cake than any other, I would love to see a Scottish Labour Party help take the Tories to the cleaners, but the SNP? No thanks.
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...and while the UK is a union Scottish MP's, regardless of their political stripe, ought to be able to represent their constituents in westminster. It could be argued that punishing the Scots for returning the predicted numbers of SNP MP's will bring about the exact breakup you seem to want to avoid.
 
butchersapron said:
See this sort of thing is like the religious claiming that all thought is religious or just an inversion of religious thought based on the same logic (ah so dawkins is your god-you're just like me). Support of the union is non-commital so what stuff in england and to suggest this disinterest is of the same order of the ideological nationalism of the 45% in scotland is just wrong. And it's really really insulting.
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???
 
Nylock said:
Surely you have seen the newspapers this week, heard the politicians and even read your own statements on this?


...and while the UK is a union Scottish MP's, regardless of their political stripe, ought to be able to represent their constituents in westminster. It could be argued that punishing the Scots for returning the predicted numbers of SNP MP's will bring about the exact breakup you seem to want to avoid.
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Just where have I suggested 'punishing' anyone?
 
butchersapron said:
What don't you get?
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Were you having a go at me in that post, or making a wider point? My post about the rhetoric may have been missing a hyperbole smiley when I made it but I thought that would have come across in the general tone of the post....
 
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