In the pub tonight most people said they favoured Nicola Sturgeon. What a pity this is S E UK..

[dishevelled]

Full autonomy, too little??

That's not what I meant. Prior to the referendem vote, Cameron promised x, y, z for Scotland if they voted to stay part of the UK. Ever since the 'no' vote succeeded, he's done everything from dithering, to absolutely
nothing.

That was the 'too little'. Now is the 'too late'.

 

[The Boy]

Remind me,what is the primary aim of the SNP?

Remind us, what was the outcome of the referendum on independence? And what has Sturgeon explicitly stated is the party's stance on another referendum?

 

[JTG]

coley: The Yes vote in September was 45%. Current polls in Scotland show the SNP on c45% of the vote.

Now. We would be foolish to assume that those two figures translate exactly onto each other. Not all SNP voters support indy and not all indy supporters vote SNP.

However - even if the two figures were interchangable - that doesn't mean that a majority are voting SNP, nor that a majority now want independence. It would still mean a 45% (ish) vote for the SNP's candidates which, under FPTP, means a landslide even though most people don't support them.

You're making a hell of a lot of assumptions about what Scottish votes and polls indicate with very little insight or thought joining up the dots

 

[danny la rouge]

Why shouldn't the SNP get what they want,if the majority of people in Scotland vote SNP then why not give the SNP what it wants, full autonomy?
But with the caveat they have no voting rights at Westminster, my suggestion gives the SNP what they seemingly want but without the mess.

The electorate in Scotland are capable - as you seem not to be - of distinguishing between a referendum for independence and a Westminster election. (And indeed a Holyrood election).

I'm not sure how many more ways there are to say this. The majority does not want independence. The electorate does, on the other hand, look as if it wants a lot of SNP MPs at Westminster.

Why don't you understand that?

 

[coley]

The electorate in Scotland are capable - as you seem not to be - of distinguishing between a referendum for independence and a Westminster election. (And indeed a Holyrood election).

I'm not sure how many more ways there are to say this. The majority does not want independence. The electorate does, on the other hand, look as if it wants a lot of SNP MPs at Westminster.

Why don't you understand that?

I understand that the SNP wants an independent Scotland and if given the mandate in May will go for it, or has that position changed?

 

[JTG]

I understand that the SNP wants an independent Scotland and if given the mandate in May will go for it, or has that position changed?

How do you mean? UDI?

 

[redsquirrel]

I understand that the SNP wants an independent Scotland and if given the mandate in May will go for it, or has that position changed?

Yep that's right they're going to blackmail Ed into making Scotland Independent.

Christ, read the crap you've come out with and think for a second or two

 

[Teaboy]

I understand that the SNP wants an independent Scotland and if given the mandate in May will go for it, or has that position changed?

Yup and the lib dems wanted PR. Everyone gets want they want in the case of a hung parliament, even the minor parties.

 

[danny la rouge]

I understand that the SNP wants an independent Scotland and if given the mandate in May will go for it, or has that position changed?

Then you don't understand at all.

The SNP is not standing on an independence ticket at this election.

http://votesnp.com/docs/manifesto.pdf

 

[coley]

Then you don't understand at all.

The SNP is not standing on an independence ticket at this election.

http://votesnp.com/docs/manifesto.pdf

I know, they are standing on the usual 'vote for us and we will give you everything you want' but it doesn't alter the fact the that the reason for its existence is Scottish independence, and the forecasted results (should they be accurate)would give it a once in a lifetime chance of achieving this.

 

[coley]

How do you mean? UDI?

No, but if they end up having a major influence in Policy making, are you and others seriously suggesting they won't seek to use that influence to create a political climate in Scotland where an independent Scotland is seen by the majority of Scots as both workable and desirable?

 

[Nylock]

...So if the Scots returned an SNP whitewash in Scotland on the non-independence, speak-up-for-scotland-in-westminster ticket then they ought to be excluded from having a voice in westminster, despite them being the third largest party with up to 55 seats? So by that logic, if plaid were on course for 37 seats in wales, they would likely get subjected to the same conditions under these rules... Being excluded from national decisions by voting in your perceived interests, that seems entirely fair and reasonable.

 

[coley]

...So if the Scots returned an SNP whitewash in Scotland on the non-independence, speak-up-for-scotland-in-westminster ticket then they ought to be excluded from having a voice in westminster, despite them being the third largest party with up to 55 seats? So by that logic, if plaid were on course for 37 seats in wales, they would likely get subjected to the same conditions under these rules... Being excluded from national decisions by voting in your perceived interests, that seems entirely fair and reasonable.

So your suggesting that the SNP wouldn't use their influence to further their independence agenda? That they would only use their clout to get a better deal for Scotland but while remaining a permanent member of the UK?

 

[Nylock]

So your suggesting that the SNP wouldn't use their influence to further their independence agenda? That they would only use their clout to get a better deal for Scotland but while remaining a permanent member of the UK?

Nope, i'm just wondering why you would seek to exclude that many mp's from having a voice in the UK parliament. Because until that parliament's identity changes, that's what they would be....

 

[danny la rouge]

I know, they are standing on the usual 'vote for us and we will give you everything you want' but it doesn't alter the fact the that the reason for its existence is Scottish independence, and the forecasted results (should they be accurate)would give it a once in a lifetime chance of achieving this.

Firstly, your suggestion isn't to offer independence, but full fiscal autonomy in return for no representation at Westminster. There is no justification for denying Scotland representation at Westminster while it remains part of the UK. The "deal" would be utterly unacceptable to Scottish voters. It's insulting and bizarre.

Secondly, as you seem unable to grasp, while the SNP still believes in independence, it knows that has been kicked into the long grass by the referendum result. And, more to the point, so does the electorate. Which is partly why even No voters feel free to vote SNP at this election.

 

[danny la rouge]

Anyway, to return to the the point of the thread. Here's an assessment in the Telegraph of the where the SNP stands in the spectrum:

"Somewhat to the left of the SWP"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gen...la-Sturgeon-Its-time-to-say-Bye-Bye-Baby.html

 

[Dogsauce]

Yup and the lib dems wanted PR. Everyone gets want they want in the case of a hung parliament, even the minor parties.

We should have given them PR in lib dem held constituencies only. It's only fair.

 

[danny la rouge]

We should have given them PR in lib dem held constituencies only. It's only fair.

They didn't ask for PR in the end.

 

[coley]

Ju

Nope, i'm just wondering why you would seek to exclude that many mp's from having a voice in the UK parliament. Because until that parliament's identity changes, that's what they would be....

It's just a suggestion to hurry up the inevitable. Let's be honest, the SNP has no real interest in the success or future of the remainder of GB, now NS is being clever in trying to portray her party as cuddly and left wing but independence is their main goal or have I missed something?

 

[coley]

Firstly, your suggestion isn't to offer independence, but full fiscal autonomy in return for no representation at Westminster. There is no justification for denying Scotland representation at Westminster while it remains part of the UK. The "deal" would be utterly unacceptable to Scottish voters. It's insulting and bizarre.

Secondly, as you seem unable to grasp, while the SNP still believes in independence, it knows that has been kicked into the long grass by the referendum result. And, more to the point, so does the electorate. Which is partly why even No voters feel free to vote SNP at this election.

They may try to kid the Scottish electorate that the quest for independence is out there in the long grass, but it's my opinion ( given their anticipated success in May) that they will be grabbing the lawn mower at the first chance.

 

[coley]

Anyway, to return to the the point of the thread. Here's an assessment in the Telegraph of the where the SNP stands in the spectrum:

"Somewhat to the left of the SWP"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gen...la-Sturgeon-Its-time-to-say-Bye-Bye-Baby.html

Disgusting article, not funny in the slightest ( I think it was meant to be humorously satirical)
Good photo though

 

[redsquirrel]

I was going to respond, but it's pointless isn't it. No matter how many times things are explained to him coley isn't going to actually absorb them, he's just going to keep splurging more bullshit.

Really this is reaching Sass' Scottish Nazi Party levels of stupidity.

 

[danny la rouge]

Disgusting article, not funny in the slightest ( I think it was meant to be humorously satirical)
Good photo though

And yet it says something you agree with:

The elected representatives of Scottish constituencies have "no place at our nation’s top table". They should keep their noses out of Westminster.

 

[DotCommunist]

Anyway, to return to the the point of the thread. Here's an assessment in the Telegraph of the where the SNP stands in the spectrum:

"Somewhat to the left of the SWP"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gen...la-Sturgeon-Its-time-to-say-Bye-Bye-Baby.html

the telegraphs invioking a tartan lenin already, fuck me

 

[coley]

I was going to respond, but it's pointless isn't it. No matter how many times things are explained to him coley isn't going to actually absorb them, he's just going to keep splurging more bullshit.

Really this is reaching Sass' Scottish Nazi Party levels of stupidity.

Actually my first post on this was more a bit of whimsy following a celebratory bottle of wine, but if we are going to go at it seriously,why not offer the SNP full fiscal autonomy but with an agreement to keep out of issues not affecting Scotland, something along these lines has already been proposed in parliament I believe.
Now,I've been a Unionist all my life but as a unionist I believe the cake should be divided equally,so should The SNP take on fiscal responsibility including all tax revenues then they should give up the Barnett formula.
As for stupidity, people who claim a heavy vote for a nationalist party isn't going to increase nationalism, is away with the faries!

 

[danny la rouge]

As for stupidity, people who claim a heavy vote for a nationalist party isn't going to increase nationalism, is away with the faries!

 

[coley]

I

I've always thought yon bugger was away with the fairies, but your point is?
ETA,Your not seriously suggesting ( all the union flags) that Millipede has the union at heart?

 

[JTG]

Unionism. Definitely not nationalism in any way shape or form. No sir.

 

[butchersapron]

So are we we saying all nationalism is bad here or pointing out that unionism is based on a different nationalism?

I'm confused by the nationalist surge and some of its supporters.

 

[weepiper]