Why the bloody hell, if immigration is a minor factor in a whole series, is it the only 'piece of the jigsaw' that we need to focus on. Or more precisely why is it the thing you continually focus on.
Do you realise how obsessed, downright unbalanced and frankly worrying that makes you appear.
Nobody is stopping anyone talking about immigration. We're saying that you need to get a sense of perspective...
finally .. becuase it is the one thing that the left ignore or deny ( though far fewer do now) .. and everyone else talks about it .. the bosses use it .. the state uses it .. the far right use it .. the left get confused .. it is one of issues of the moment .. how it is used as much as what it does
it is not possible to talk about so much .. wages , lack of investment in training, youth unemployment, cheap food, housing etc etc etc without mentionning immigration .. yet this is what the left try ( and fail in the public's eyes) to do
Game set and match. Thanks to a powerful volley of shit from an alcoholic x public schoolboy....Well done MC.....thats got me convinced then.....
Miserable git.
do you sign in under another name as well - as poster thingwhatsit?
we, as in the SP, don,t hide from owt - it is dealt with as and when it is raised - as are all the other questions raised. Where have the SP avoided the question? Show me? - show me where any public pronouncment has contradicted our collective and mutually agreed opinion?
I raised the idea of the 'race to the bottom' that we use to explain in simple terms the reality behind competition for jobs - you then re-use that term out of context in this thread.
The SP have fought and won serious battles - the 'race to the bottom' was first used in ireland where the SP - far from avoiding the issue put it on the front cover of every newspaper and tv broadcast in the country in the process of exposing use of cheap labour and the secret dealing of corrupt hypocritical politicians. That is not hiding from 'the issues' mate - its just more effective than repeating the same crap day in day out on a bulletin board. Our organisation united working people - irish and immigrant in the face of the previous raising of a popular anti-immigrant mood being used by politicians to hide their own failings and dirty deals.
We don't see the point in reinforcing the media obsession with the issue - but that is very different from 'hiding from the issue'. When you have raised it I have argued my points on the subject - you could not disagree with them- I cannot see the point of repeating them ad infinitum whenever you re-raise the same question for the nth time as though everything I had said was in a vacum when i said it. And thats the bone of contention most folk have with you - you ignore the points made and simply repeat the same stuff ad infinitum. Attention seeker
This is your real problem: its trying to tar the entire 'left' with your limited and understandably unenlightening experience of a certain type of left while a member of the SWP. So you are disollusioned with left politics - it does not give you the excuse to tar me with the same brush
the race to the bottom needs to be highlighted and yes the SP is involved in the day to day on this BUT we have to talk about immigration up front otherwise much of what we say makes no sense .. it really is the elephant in the room people do not want to talk about
and as i repeat over and over the BNP ARE busy talking about immigration - hyopcitically and racistly - you can not confront their propaganda without highlighting what the process really is ..
and yes the one SP article i have seen was spot on .. but it needs to be front page .. it needs to be a national campaign to deracialise the issue to bring it back into attacking the bosses .. as i say to tarannau .. it is the piece of the jigsaw whose absence makes the left appear ridiculous
Game set and match. Thanks to a powerful volley of shit from an alcoholic x public schoolboy....Well done MC.....thats got me convinced then.....
Miserable git.
Here we have Durruti's capitulation to the bosses press and its politicians' hysteria summed up nicely. Don't talk about years of union-bashing, casualisation, shit minimum wage, piss poor investment in housing and training, imposition of 'flexible' working. No, immigration is the thing we have to mention.it is not possible to talk about so much .. wages , lack of investment in training, youth unemployment, cheap food, housing etc etc etc without mentionning immigration .. yet this is what the left try ( and fail in the public's eyes) to do
Here we have Durruti's capitulation to the bosses press and its politicians' hysteria summed up nicely. Don't talk about years of union-bashing, casualisation, shit minimum wage, piss poor investment in housing and training, imposition of 'flexible' working. No, immigration is the thing we have to mention.
I think Durruti does good work and does everything a w/c activist should on the ground in terms of building his union and recruiting migrant workers. It's just the weird emphasis on immigration over these other issues when he writes on here that I don't get.Spion. I dont quite know why your making a post like that. Durruti is a Union rep a long term left activist who does not ignore any of the issues you mention.
He wants the Left to start to connect with what should be its natural constituency the kind of people he represents at work. To do that he knows they have to look at why they presently fail so badly.
I think you should welcome that if you really do want to see a left that has more impact in this country.
Spion. I dont quite know why your making a post like that. Durruti is a Union rep a long term left activist who does not ignore any of the issues you mention.
I thought durutti was an ex-squatter, with anarchist/liberal hippy leanings?
I think Durruti does good work and does everything a w/c activist should on the ground in terms of building his union and recruiting migrant workers. It's just the weird emphasis on immigration over these other issues when he writes on here that I don't get.
As an aside I think the bosses are getting ready to turn the tap off on immigration (recent Lords report, BBC surveys etc). You lot want to be careful you don't get drawn along with that tide when it happens
Fair point far too libertarian for my liking at times...But when he gets it right, he does it better than anyone...Apart from me that is....
Here we have Durruti's capitulation to the bosses press and its politicians' hysteria summed up nicely. Don't talk about years of union-bashing, casualisation, shit minimum wage, piss poor investment in housing and training, imposition of 'flexible' working. No, immigration is the thing we have to mention.
I think Durruti does good work and does everything a w/c activist should on the ground in terms of building his union and recruiting migrant workers. It's just the weird emphasis on immigration over these other issues when he writes on here that I don't get.
As an aside I think the bosses are getting ready to turn the tap off on immigration (recent Lords report, BBC surveys etc). You lot want to be careful you don't get drawn along with that tide when it happens
i do lean on lots of trees and squat down and admire the sunset on occasionI thought durutti was an ex-squatter, with anarchist/liberal hippy leanings?
i do lean on lots of trees and squat down and admire the sunset on occasion
i am veeery ecologicalYou shit in the woods - very good.
By having defeated the unions, you klutz!the issue is that the last few years of this neo liberal process could NOT have happenned WITHOUT cheap labour immigration .. and if you deny this explain how otherwise the bosses would have worked the last few years of????
tell me how can YOU talk of cheap food, low wages, housing issues, attacks on the unions, cowboy cleaning firms etc etc etc WITHOUT mentionning immigration?
Demonstration against new immigration laws
Thousands of migrant workers demonstrated in Trafalgar Square today against the government's new immigration laws. They were overwhelmingly from the Indian sub-continent and predominantly from Bangladesh.
The demonstration was organised by the Ethnic Catering Alliance including the Bangladesh Caterers Association. Many workers of Bangladeshi origin were there and there were also workers in the Chinese and Turkish restaurant business.
When temporary work permits expire the government force the workers concerned to return to their home country and apply again for permits. Not only is this expensive (and environmentally damaging), under the new "Australian" rules, many workers will now be turned down for permit renewal. This will have a potentially devastating impact on the Indian, Turkish and Chinese restaurant businesses.
http://www.respectrenewal.org/content/view/260/6/
By having defeated the unions, you klutz!
Your emphasis on immigration as a prime cause is deeply wrong, and dangerous
I reckon most of the Bangladeshis would like to see local jobs for local people where they lived dont you?
I reckon very few people from a Bangladeshi background would think your support for free market polices was any good at all.
The demand 'local jobs for local people' in this instance doesn't really address the campaigners immediate fears, of labour shortages and the likelihood of closure as a result.
Perhaps you think " No Jobs for Local People" is what we should all be campaigning for. Along with support for taking all the skilled workers from poorer nations.... Supporting Free market policies on migration is crap MC. I think even you must realise that by now...
Do you not think that people in poorer countries need doctors and teachers?
Survival of the fittest eh.....
it is the same coin but differrent sides mate! defeating the unions ( which was a process not just the battle of orgreve) has been a long term process of which USING migrant labour is CURRENTLY key ..By having defeated the unions, you klutz!
Your emphasis on immigration as a prime cause is deeply wrong, and dangerous