Feminism and a world designed for men

[Pickman's model]

Am I right in thinking there are now no men's or women's toilets, such that (in principle) anyone can use any stalls, but that, in reality women are unlikely to use the stalls in the room where there are urinals, and will now have to compete with men to use the stalls elsewhere? Practically speaking, that's not really any improvement in the provision of facilities women (which was the basis of the fundraising) is it?

yeh they seem to be offering a worse service than they were before

 

[Gromit]

No. I really dont want to spell out why women might need more privacy but if you suffered with heavy periods you would probably understand but please do assume that its because we want to gossip. Women heh? Chuh.

No the assumption would be that you didn't want privacy because you want to gossip. Privacy is a barrier to gossip was what I implied.

I don't suffer with heavy periods correct.
I have provided first aid to women with heavy periods on more than one occasion (well twice) so I do have some sympathy. Before you ask yes I was aware that it was embarrassing for them (at first) that the only first aider available at that moment was male.

 

[Poot]

Fucking hell.

 

[Treacle Toes]

First aid to women with heavy periods? WTF?

 

[Treacle Toes]

No the assumption would be that you didn't want privacy because you want to gossip.

You know what they say?


Fuck off Gromit.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

What sort of First Aid, Gromit ?

 

[Poot]

What sort of First Aid, Gromit ?

I'm imagining a bandage.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Handing out sanitary towels/tampax, pain killers, hot water bottles, clean underwear?


Oh can you imagine the 'sympathy'?

 

[kabbes]

If you want to maximise throughput, it would make sense to have a room only with urinals and then a whole bunch of individual unisex stalls. Mostly because you can fit a lot of urinals in the same space as a single stall, so it gives you the chance to eliminate a lot of eliminators in one fast flow of fast flow.

There are factors other than throughout to consider, though.

 

[MickiQ]

If you want to maximise throughput, it would make sense to have a room only with urinals and then a whole bunch of individual unisex stalls. Mostly because you can fit a lot of urinals in the same space as a single stall, so it gives you the chance to eliminate a lot of eliminators in one fast flow of fast flow.

There are factors other than throughout to consider, though.

Not having been there but I suspect that is what the Old Vic now actually has
Setting aside all the other (very sensible) concerns, to maximise throughput and get bums back on seats (no puns intended) you need to maximise female throughput so you need more female only facilities than shared or male only. I've never been to a theatre and felt I have had to queue excessively, my wife is definitely of a different opinion.

 

[Gromit]

What sort of First Aid, Gromit ?

Transport to privacy (first aid room with facilities [including sanitary products] and a bed) and a hot water bottle.
Not allowed to issue pain killers but can advise them to take any they have or have been lent.
Then left with a female colleague for sympathy and to summon me from outside if symptoms deteriorated into shock.

Despite all your scorn here both women were grateful for my aid and thanked me later on.

 

[Pickman's model]

Transport to privacy (first aid room with facilities [including sanitary products] and a bed) and a hot water bottle.
Not allowed to issue pain killers but can advise them to take any they have or have been lent.
Then left with a female colleague for sympathy and to summon me from outside if symptoms deteriorated into shock.

Despite all your scorn here both women were grateful for my aid and thanked me later on.

millions of pms of support

 

[TopCat]

Was the crowdfunder specifically just for more women's loo's? Anyone seen the actual appeal?

Note also there are extra large cubicles as well. They are all floor to ceiling doors.

 

[Pickman's model]

No the assumption would be that you didn't want privacy because you want to gossip. Privacy is a barrier to gossip was what I implied.

I don't suffer with heavy periods correct.
I have provided first aid to women with heavy periods on more than one occasion (well twice) so I do have some sympathy. Before you ask yes I was aware that it was embarrassing for them (at first) that the only first aider available at that moment was male.

my jaw hit the floor when i saw this post

 

[Athos]

Was the crowdfunder specifically just for more women's loo's? Anyone seen the actual appeal?

Note also there are extra large cubicles as well. They are all floor to ceiling doors.

Yes, the poster said "ladies' loos."

 

[Treacle Toes]

Transport to privacy (first aid room with facilities [including sanitary products] and a bed) and a hot water bottle.
Not allowed to issue pain killers but can advise them to take any they have or have been lent.
Then left with a female colleague for sympathy and to summon me from outside if symptoms deteriorated into shock.

Despite all your scorn here both women were grateful for my aid and thanked me later on.

A true hero.

 

[Athos]

Not having been there but I suspect that is what the Old Vic now actually has
Setting aside all the other (very sensible) concerns, to maximise throughput and get bums back on seats (no puns intended) you need to maximise female throughput so you need more female only facilities than shared or male only. I've never been to a theatre and felt I have had to queue excessively, my wife is definitely of a different opinion.

No, as I understand it the room with urinals also contains stalls which they say are available to women.

 

[TopCat]

Yes, the poster said "ladies' toilets."

Sorry "the poster said ladies toilets" is irrelevant. Did the old Vic appeal for money just for more women's toilets. Has anyone seen the actual appeal the Old Vic put out.
I think some of the backlash inc from JudithB is disingenuous as from what I can see indirectly in the press is that the appeal was for various improvements inc the Foyer.
It would be useful to have clarification.

 

[TopCat]

No, as I understand it the room with urinals also contains stalls which they say are available to women.

It sounds like they have a similar setup to Fabric nighclub.

 

[Gromit]

No, as I understand it the room with urinals also contains stalls which they say are available to women.

201-year-old theatre has replaced signs on male and female lavatories with pictures of cubicles or urinals.

The urinals will as you say also be available to women.
Although I doubt Old Vic punters will be as organised enough to use them as female festival goers are.

 

[MickiQ]

No, as I understand it the room with urinals also contains stalls which they say are available to women.

Well in which case JudithB's outrage is fully justified, I would have thought that a unisex loo would be like a disabled one (but smaller) with the door opening into
a public space, if they have just cleaned up the male loos and stuck a sign on the outside door saying "Unisex" expecting women to walk past the men having a slash in the urinals then that's taking the piss (again no pun intended)

 

[Athos]

Sorry "the poster said ladies toilets" is irrelevant. Did the old Vic appeal for money just for more women's toilets. Has anyone seen the actual appeal the Old Vic put out.
I think some of the backlash inc from JudithB is disingenuous as from what I can see indirectly in the press is that the appeal was for various improvements inc the Foyer.
It would be useful to have clarification.

I edited my post to include the poster. Did you see it? It makes clear that what they were asking people to donate to was to double the number of "ladies' loos" - that was the fundraiser.

 

[Pickman's model]

Sorry "the poster said ladies toilets" is irrelevant. Did the old Vic appeal for money just for more women's toilets. Has anyone seen the actual appeal the Old Vic put out.
I think some of the backlash inc from JudithB is disingenuous as from what I can see indirectly in the press is that the appeal was for various improvements inc the Foyer.
It would be useful to have clarification.

Your guide to getting around The Old Vic | The Old Vic

 

[Gromit]

Sorry "the poster said ladies toilets" is irrelevant. Did the old Vic appeal for money just for more women's toilets. Has anyone seen the actual appeal the Old Vic put out.
I think some of the backlash inc from JudithB is disingenuous as from what I can see indirectly in the press is that the appeal was for various improvements inc the Foyer.
It would be useful to have clarification.

They did indeed start the campaign with intentions to increase women’s toilets.
Then criticism swayed them to change direction.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if some bright spark realized this also helped them meet equality and diversity benefit indicators on some of their grants.

ETA: Oh and no doubt the public raised funds were probably used as part of the match funding to also enable grants to be accessed. I’m doubting the fund raiser covered even half the costs.

 

[Pickman's model]

Sorry "the poster said ladies toilets" is irrelevant. Did the old Vic appeal for money just for more women's toilets. Has anyone seen the actual appeal the Old Vic put out.
I think some of the backlash inc from JudithB is disingenuous as from what I can see indirectly in the press is that the appeal was for various improvements inc the Foyer.
It would be useful to have clarification.

this is from last year

Your Christmas Gift from The Old Vic | The Old Vic

 

[Poot]

201-year-old theatre has replaced signs on male and female lavatories with pictures of cubicles or urinals.

The urinals will as you say also be available to women.
Although I doubt Old Vic punters will be as organised enough to use them as female festival goers are.

'Organised enough'. Lol.

 

[Pickman's model]

They did indeed start the campaign with intentions to increase women’s toilets.
Then criticism swayed them to change direction.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if some bright spark realized this also helped them meet equality and diversity benefit indicators on some of their grants.

ETA: Oh and no doubt the public raised funds were no doubt used as part of the match funding to also enable the grants to be access.

what TopCat's asking for is evidence not bluster or hearsay

 

[SpookyFrank]

If you want to maximise throughput, it would make sense to have a room only with urinals and then a whole bunch of individual unisex stalls. Mostly because you can fit a lot of urinals in the same space as a single stall, so it gives you the chance to eliminate a lot of eliminators in one fast flow of fast flow.

There are factors other than throughout to consider, though.

We visited Devon this summer and most of the public conveniences seem to have been redesigned with exactly this arrangement.

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Old Vic Theatre replaces single-sex toilets with inclusive facilities for all genders

 

[Proper Tidy]

I did a first aid course years ago that my union sent me on, missed the bit about menstruation response, must have nipped out for a fag