Fate of EU citizens in the UK post Brexit

[littlebabyjesus]

Are you stupid or are you deliberately misinterpreting as a justification for self-indulgent grandstanding?

Pocket science's faith in "Rights" may be a tad naïve, but the comments about the advantages of having an EU national partner if things go bad here are similar to those made all over these boards.

In the context it was clearly said to minimise the importance of this issue. Similar to a fair few posts on here.

 

[ska invita]

Admittedly, I was being sarcy saying "Lucky".
I hate the idea of registation etc, but the point remains, the UK is implementing a system that was born in, and is widly practised across the EU.

Europeans... Very good at filling in forms...lucky that, good skill, gonna need it

 

[Pickman's model]

Europeans... Very good at filling in forms...lucky that, good skill, gonna need it

the british aren't that bad at it either, as they too have to face the tricky test of the universal credit application

 

[pocketscience]

mad that it's taken the UK's leaving of the EU for it to implement a system that's widespread in the EU.
Brexit reaches peak paradox

 

[Pickman's model]

mad that it's taken the UK's leaving of the EU for it to implement a system that's widespread in the EU.
Brexit reaches peak paradox

you'll love what happens next

 

[DexterTCN]

This is from over 4 years ago.
'Unemployed EU citizens can be expelled'

Can you give me a one sentence breakdown of the German article? Maybe something like "fuck all is happening but we might decide to do something in the future, but then we didn't"

I posted about current deportations of EU citizens from the UK. Your replies are...well never mind just now, I'll see what else you post.

 

[pocketscience]

Europeans... Very good at filling in forms...lucky that, good skill, gonna need it

Everyone. not just europeans.
Go and live in a different country anyehere in the world and get asked to fill out forms shocker.
The UK was the exception.

 

[pocketscience]

Can you give me a one sentence breakdown of the German article? Maybe something like "fuck all is happening but we might decide to do something in the future, but then we didn't"

I posted about current deportations of EU citizens from the UK. Your replies are...well never mind just now, I'll see what else you post.

I gave a first hand account of it happening. it's real.

Established or not, anyone who's had the displeasure of dealing with the convoluted intricacies of German beurocracy, won't be calling it simple.
I've told the story here before about a spanish aquaintance of mine that was deported from Germany for not having health insurance (private is mandatory) after being registered for 3 months. The thing is, she'd worked the whole time but her german employer hadn't paid her wages or HI contributions. She had to take the case to the civil courts as a pay dispute but couldn't contest it because 'the system' saw her as an illeagal (all this despite EU freedom of movement).
Some german friends helping her out did some research and found this isn't an uncommon story.
The conspiratorially minded could almost be forgiven for thinking the state is in cohorts with unscrupulous employers.

that was over a decade ago

 

[Yossarian]

I thought the OP did a good job of setting out the numerous areas where there are causes of concern - "they just need to fill in forms" isn't an argument much stronger than "those who did nothing wrong have nothing to fear."

 

[Spymaster]

a pay rise is more likely to be a rise in pay than a bonus payment. a decrease in hours is less likely to be a pay rise and more likely to see a decrease in income

Perhaps. The point is that Pret pay according to a fixed scale.

We pay our lovely Team Members £8.25 an hour in London and other expensive cities. After 12 weeks training, Team Members can earn an additional weekly mystery shopper bonus of £1 per hour (on average, 85% of our teams receive this bonus every week).

So is she now on more than £8.25/hour; being given the extra quid anyway; something else; what's happening?

And Pret's analysts have concluded that prospective employee footfall has already reduced to such a level that they need to make salary increases now, to retain staff before we've even left the EU, might not at all, and in any case are a year or two ahead of meaningful restrictions on EU migration actually being implemented? Then they tell their shop staff but not the financial markets or the business press?

Sounds like TC's being wound up.

 

[TopCat]

Maybe post it on the Lexit What Is To Be Done thread as a success story, it gives us all hope.

Anyhow im guessing you're imaging there are less foreign workers here, less competition, better wages. Doesn't hold up as net immigration is up several hundred thousand.

Your friends 10p wage increase aside, how does this relate to a mass of people about to be made illegal in 2021? Maybe that 10p an hour makes it worth it?

Ten p an hour? Your imagination is feverish.

 

[pocketscience]

I thought the OP did a good job of setting out the numerous areas where there are causes of concern - "they just need to fill in forms" isn't an argument much stronger than "those who did nothing wrong have nothing to fear."

I agree, the OP is totally justified and there is cause for concern that some will fall through the cracks, namely the more vulnerable like OAPs ect.
I also totally agree with the advice (from you maybe?) that it's vital that those impacted stay on top of the situation and follow developments.
What isn't helpfull on a thread like this, and it's what led to my 'fill out forms' comment, is the rightious indignation and grandstanding of lbj about how disgusting this particular process is, and how baby-eating brexiters need to burn in hell for eternity because of the inconvenience caused (paradoxically to those whos country also sets out said inconveniences for forrins and their own citizens).

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I agree, the OP is totally justified and there is cause for concern that some will fall through the cracks, namely the more vulnerable like OAPs ect.
I also totally agree with the advice (from you maybe?) that it's vital that those impacted stay on top of the situation and follow developments.
What isn't helpfull on a thread like this, and it's what led to my 'fill out forms' comment, is the rightious indignation and grandstanding of lbj about how disgusting this particular process is, and how baby-eating brexiters need to burn in hell for eternity because of the inconvenience caused (paradoxically to those whos country also sets out said inconveniences for forrins and their own citizens).

Would you have said the same thing when they tried to bring in id cards (lots of people did)? No big deal. Rest of Europe has them. It's not a paradox that other parts of Europe have these things. It is ironic, certainly, that brexit is leading to the UK introducing them. ID cards may well be next on the menu, who knows? Not everyone in Europe is sanguine about ID cards, btw, as an example - the fact we don't have them is a great thing and worth preserving. Same with these registers.

As for my use of the word 'disgusting', that's what I think this is as a way of treating people who in many cases have been living here for decades.

 

[ska invita]

Seems like this scheme to do it all through an app is going to be particularly hard on older people - my mother-in-law is widowed, German, has lived in Scotland for decades, and has no idea how to use a computer.

She's got us to help her navigate the process, but a lot of other people in her situation are probably going to fall through the cracks and I doubt they'll be getting much sympathy from the government - I give it about two years before we're hearing about civil servants being given targets for the number of residency requests from EU citizens they're supposed to reject.

Windrush shows the way... Denied health care and then booted out.


They won't need targets because there will be more cases than they can deal with.

 

[pocketscience]

Would you have said the same thing when they tried to bring in id cards (lots of people did)? No big deal. Rest of Europe has them. It's not a paradox that other parts of Europe have these things. It is ironic, certainly, that brexit is leading to the UK introducing them. ID cards may well be next on the menu, who knows? Not everyone in Europe is sanguine about ID cards, btw, as an example - the fact we don't have them is a great thing and worth preserving. Same with these registers.

As for my use of the word 'disgusting', that's what I think this is as a way of treating people who in many cases have been living here for decades.

Paradox / Irony whatevs... point is, the process is more a result of being in the EU for years than a facet of leaving imo.
If the UK had introduced ID cards and registration a decade ago - with all the bells & whistles like the private health insurance mandatory requirement (that a lot of EU countries have)
then the wind would've been taken out of UKIPs sails. The cliche 'health tourists coming over 'ere using our NHS' argument would never had existed and the referendum would've never seen the light of day.

 

[Reno]

As an EU immigrant it wasn’t just my worry about my residence status after the referendum result which made me leave. It was a profound sense of disappointment with and anger at a country to which I’d contributed for 33 years. Whatever was left of my anglophilia evaporated that day and I took it as a slap in the face.

After the financial crash and the resulting austerity measures, which gave the Tories ample opportunity to dismantle the welfare state even further, I’m not going to hang around for what they’ll do after Brexit. I’m getting old, I’m not up for an NHS and a benefits system in tatters once I’ll need it more and more. I feel sorry for my British friends who are stuck with the resulting fallout and very grateful that my EU citizenship gave me a way out.

 

[Yossarian]

Doesn't seem like it was widely known, but the UK did require EU citizens resident in Britain who weren't working - including citizens and stay-at-home spouses - to have private medical insurance for those periods when they weren't employed. After the Brexit vote, some people who applied for residency were denied it because the Home Office found that there were periods when they weren't working and didn't have insurance - the office tried to argue that it would have been a breach of EU rules to grant them residency under the circumstances.

The government said a year ago that it was going to drop this requirement, but it shows the kind of hoops people may end up having to jump through, even if ministers promise that it's going to be a straightforward process.

Jocelyn Howorth from immigration law firm Westkin Associates said permanent residence applications have been rejected because candidates did not have insurance cover for ambulance transport or because the insurance bought was called a “health plan” instead of “health insurance”.

Subscribe to read | Financial Times

 

[DexterTCN]

I gave a first hand account of it happening. it's real.

that was over a decade ago

Giving hearsay about someone you knew a decade ago isn't first-hand, is it?

I doubt many are assured by your 'what about Germany' attitude and it seems no more than anti-EU irrelevant nonsense on this thread.

 

[pseudonarcissus]

You're telling someone they can always fuck off elsewhere? Really. Why try to justify this shite, or try to minimise it as you have done here? Just call it out for what it is. It is the single most disgusting thing about brexit. And we all knew this was going to happen, or something similar. This is what a tory brexit has always meant. It's not wisdom after the event. Anyone who supports this, or even just tries to excuse or downplay it, is no political friend of mine. You place yourself on the other side from me if you support this fucking shit.

No, I agree. It’s disgusting. I really hope EU citizens rights are respected. I am not sure the Tory right will do this, but if you have an EU partner, following the registration procedure is all you can do to help you sleep at night. I don’t want anyone to feel they need to leave, even if that’s how I felt myself.
I have a nasty feeling the UK is heading to a recession resembling life under Thatcher with mass unemployment. Access to overseas labour markets may then be attractive

 

[Pickman's model]

Brexit putting thousands of ski resort jobs at risk for British workers
put here for uk citizens in europe

 

[not-bono-ever]

a pay rise is more likely to be a rise in pay than a bonus payment. a decrease in hours is less likely to be a pay rise and more likely to see a decrease in income

if there is a pension scheme run by an employer then bonus is preferred as it falls outside the employer % base salary contribution requirement. Also a change of contract hours can pay benefits if done in advance if you are looking to offload them through redundancy.

 

[tim]

Would you have said the same thing when they tried to bring in id cards (lots of people did)? No big deal. Rest of Europe has them. It's not a paradox that other parts of Europe have these things. It is ironic, certainly, that brexit is leading to the UK introducing them. ID cards may well be next on the menu, who knows? Not everyone in Europe is sanguine about ID cards, btw, as an example - the fact we don't have them is a great thing and worth preserving. Same with these registers.

As for my use of the word 'disgusting', that's what I think this is as a way of treating people who in many cases have been living here for decades.

ID cards, so New Labour! The British State is and has been hoovering up so much biometric data on us they don't need us to carry ID cards. They just need to check our DNA, irises, fingerprints, faces or faeces to know who we are.

Still at least they give you something to seethe about.

 

[Pickman's model]

ID cards, so New Labour! The British State is and has been hoovering up so much biometric data on us they don't need us to carry ID cards. They just need to check our DNA, irises, fingerprints, faces or faeces to know who we are.

Still at least they give you something to seethe about.

or rather to froth about being as he has no intention of actually doing anything about it

 

[tim]

Of course my conspiracide musings about the British State's biometric datadata harves overlooks the reality that they get Crapita to look after it, as they would have done with the ID cards

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Brexit putting thousands of ski resort jobs at risk for British workers
put here for uk citizens in europe

That is tragic on every level, had we have known I think even Farage would have voted remain.

(((Greedy bastards trying to undercut the local workforce)))

 

[likesfish]

european ID cards little bit of paper from the town hall nulabours was a "smart" id card that would never have worked

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Seems like this scheme to do it all through an app is going to be particularly hard on older people - my mother-in-law is widowed, German, has lived in Scotland for decades, and has no idea how to use a computer.

She's got us to help her navigate the process, but a lot of other people in her situation are probably going to fall through the cracks and I doubt they'll be getting much sympathy from the government - I give it about two years before we're hearing about civil servants being given targets for the number of residency requests from EU citizens they're supposed to reject.

Scotland's Citizens Advice network will provide a new advice service to European citizens in Scotland affected by changes in the immigration rules as a result of Brexit.

Funded by £800,000 over three years by the Scottish Government

more here

has westminster set anything up yet? or will they repeat the caring way that the 'windrush' generation have been looked after?

 

[ska invita]

more here
has westminster set anything up yet?

The way I remember it is the first thing, literally day one of the Cameron government, they slashed funding to citizens advice bureaus. CABs were first on the chopping block. The one in Catford if you're not in the queue an hour before the doors open you won't be seen. The queue at the door is looooong.
Does that count?

From 2011 Cuts in CAB funding leaving thousands with nowhere to turn for help

 

[not-bono-ever]

Massive restructuring of law advice centres due to removal of funding and slashed legal aid - proper climate of fear stuff as well.

 

[ska invita]

Still, only 3.5 million people to process, what could possibly go wrong.