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'Conspiraloons' in the ascendancy?

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trevhagl said:
i think it's only because of brave people like Mansfield etc that reigns in the security services, if everyone was like those on here and never questioned anything suspicious they would feel far more confident
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Don’t be fucking stupid now, you can question things and come to logical conclusions.

Or you can be a loon, like yourself. :)
 
8den said:
Oswald graduated the USMC with a sharpshooter grade. It made him a mediocre shot by marine standards, but compared to most of us it made him an excellent shot.

Kennedy was travelling at around walking speed on a horizontal axis. This is the perfect line for a marksman. It's easier to hit someone travelling on a mainly Y axis than on the X axis.

It wasn't a hard shot to make. Oswald had three chances and over 3 seconds per shot. Any competent marksman could make it.
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Given a decent weapon, anyway.
 
butchersapron said:
Why isn't he dead then?
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i haven't got to the point in the book where he tells why, but he actually started cycling to work because of death threats (logic being it was harder to hide a bomb on a pushbike).

and if he ever does get bumped off they'll all be queuing up on here to say "as the media said...it was an accident!"
 
claphamboy said:
Don’t be fucking stupid now, you can question things and come to logical conclusions.

Or you can be a loon, like yourself. :)
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i don't think YOU have done much questioning.
A poll just after the "accident" showed about half of the UK thought it was murder. Thats a lot of loons!
 
trevhagl said:
ain't establishment whores so rude!!
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Ain't tediously, consistently, unrepentantly thick as pigshit twats so tediously, consistently, unrepentantly thick as pigshit?

I mean, seriously, how do you manage to post on the internets without a helper monkey?
 
fogbat said:
Ain't tediously, consistently, unrepentantly thick as pigshit twats so tediously, consistently, unrepentantly thick as pigshit?

I mean, seriously, how do you manage to post on the internets without a helper monkey?
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do you believe the moon is made of cheese ?
 
Pickman's model said:
utter bollocks. look at us army field manual 23-10 - sniper training. page 9-1 states clearly:https://rdl.train.army.mil:443/soldierPortal/atia/adlsc/view/public/9504-1/fm/23-10/fm23_10.pdf
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He wasn't a sniper, you prannet, he was a sharpshooter. In other words, he proved he could place a certain number of rounds from an iron-sighted rifle into a certain size of target from 100-250 yards, not that he could blow somebody's brains out from 400-800 yards away with a telescopic-sighted rifle.
 
bit late but KS said

Re: increase in loonery...difficult to tell, since it's only recently that the loonies have been able to communicate with each other on such a wide scale. Nothing new with it really tho - it's just struck me that it's very similar to the tales of demons etc that would quickly pass from village to village back in the days before the printing press, but had very little actual bearing on reality.
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But surely that wass before the days of universal education, the elightenment, Darwin, the diminishing of the power of religion, etc, though the last is reasserting itself in various guises.
 
But surely that wass before the days of universal education, the elightenment, Darwin, the diminishing of the power of religion, etc, though the last is reasserting itself in various guises.
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You can't change the tendency in humans that create bad pattern matching tho - which ultimately is what drives superstitions and conspiracy theories. There's a specific term for it which I forget atm.
 
trevhagl said:
i think it's only because of brave people like Mansfield etc that reigns in the security services, if everyone was like those on here and never questioned anything suspicious they would feel far more confident
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I'm going to read Mansfield's book for myself, rather than just take your spin about it on trust ...
 
But surely that wass before the days of universal education, the elightenment, Darwin, the diminishing of the power of religion, etc, though the last is reasserting itself in various guises.
Click to expand...

You can't change the tendency in humans that create bad pattern matching tho - which ultimately is what drives superstitions and conspiracy theories. There's a specific term for it which I forget atm.
 
kyser_soze said:
The thing is trev, you won't listen when someone confronts you with a simple piece of actual evidence - e.g. Diana wasn't wearing a seatbelt and that this was the main contributory factor to her injuries and subsequent death. Which is why many of us relegate you from 'healthy cynic' to 'swallows anything'.

Re: increase in loonery...difficult to tell, since it's only recently that the loonies have been able to communicate with each other on such a wide scale. Nothing new with it really tho - it's just struck me that it's very similar to the tales of demons etc that would quickly pass from village to village back in the days before the printing press, but had very little actual bearing on reality.

Do I think govts and corps can do bad things? Yes.
Does this mean I think every bad thing in the worfld is a result of a cabal rich caucasians ganging up? No
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This from kyser was way back on page 4 (only just caught up here :oops: ) but I've bolded the bit that makes most sense.

Being sceptical about conspiracy theories does not mean that you're gullible to what the establishment tell you**. Illogical leap of thought is illogical.

**(as CTers persistantly and abusively insist, while simultaneously being gullible and undersceptical as fuck to any and every conspiranoid claim about anything)

So you'd really really do yourself a major favour trev, if you dropped all this 'establishment sheep' abuse :rolleyes: against anyone who doesn't share your levels of conspiracism about Diana -- you're just undermining your own case ...
 
But surely that wass before the days of universal education, the elightenment, Darwin, the diminishing of the power of religion, etc, though the last is reasserting itself in various guises.
Click to expand...

You can't change the tendency in humans that create bad pattern matching tho - which ultimately is what drives superstitions and conspiracy theories. There's a specific term for it which I forget atm.
 
kyser_soze said:
You can't change the tendency in humans that create bad pattern matching tho - which ultimately is what drives superstitions and conspiracy theories. There's a specific term for it which I forget atm.
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Heard you the first two times, anything new to say? :p

:D
 
trevhagl said:
I think the smug establishment whores on here should read the Michael Mansfield book. I haven't got round to that chapter yet but i will back to argue with you all when i do!!
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Just a moment on Mansfield.

It would seem that he was paid, handsomely, to represent Mohamed Al Fayed legally. Perhaps, all the same, he really, sincerely entertains doubts about what really caused the death of Diana. On the other hand, maybe we should follow the conspiracy theorists' own favourite path and 'follow the money' and ask 'who benefits?' from Mansfield professing these doubts ... ?? ;)

His book will be very interesting in places no doubt, and at times in his career I'm aware he did some pretty admirable and brave things.

I have my own 'doubts' though that representing a well known and very rich conspiranoid fantasist represented MM's finest hour**

**This sentence is just my honest opinion and does not imply any actual allegation of fact </disclaimer> ;) :p
 
But surely that wass before the days of universal education, the elightenment, Darwin, the diminishing of the power of religion, etc, though the last is reasserting itself in various guises.
Click to expand...

You can't change the tendency in humans that create bad pattern matching tho - which ultimately is what drives superstitions and conspiracy theories. There's a specific term for it which I forget atm.
 
As for this thread overall ...

Yossarian said:
1187763174_youvebeen_jazzed2.jpg
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:D :p :cool:
 
William of Walworth said:
This from kyser was way back on page 4 (only just caught up here :oops: ) but I've bolded the bit that makes most sense.

Being sceptical about conspiracy theories does not mean that you're gullible to what the establishment tell you**. Illogical leap of thought is illogical.
Click to expand...
With this in mind, that conspiracies DO happen and stuff. Then which ones are real? (edit to add, this in reply to WoWs reply to the Kyser bit in bold)

Which "conspiracies" do the people who don't believe in the main lot of conspiracies, believe?

Pretty much every single conspiracy is rubbished. Wether from lack of evidence, or lack of credible sources, whatever. And that's just fine, we all believe what we like. But when people say "yeah sure, the goverments are bad and do a little bit of conspiring here and there" just what are they refering to? I'd like to know :) (please)

So, a question to the "non conspiracy" people. What conspiracies do you think are kosher?
 
xes said:
With this in mind, that conspiracies DO happen and stuff. Then which ones are real? (edit to add, this in reply to WoWs reply to the Kyser bit in bold)

Which "conspiracies" do the people who don't believe in the main lot of conspiracies, believe?

Pretty much every single conspiracy is rubbished. Wether from lack of evidence, or lack of credible sources, whatever. And that's just fine, we all believe what we like. But when people say "yeah sure, the goverments are bad and do a little bit of conspiring here and there" just what are they refering to? I'd like to know :) (please)

So, a question to the "non conspiracy" people. What conspiracies do you think are kosher?
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Not too many.

But I'm a historian by background, so you might find me surprisingly open to work by independent minded investigative journalists/researchers/historians that use proper investigative methods. And show a healthy awareness to what real evidence is. And who recognise the biases and vested interests and flaws that are found in all sources, CTist just as much as 'establishment', yet are still able to balance claim against claim, fact against fact, voice against voice, and after that are still able to draw rational, evidence-consistent conclusions, or at least possible conclusions.
Recognising too the incompleteness and inconclusiveness that is sometimes all that is possible.

And most of all, who disassociate themselves from relying (note bold) on indiscriminate, undersceptical, scattergun-approach conspiracist sources and websites.

I've bolded the bit of your post that IMO you've got arse about tit though -- how many conspiracy supporters ever debunk or show scepticism towards their own or other conspiracy theories? How many CTers show equally heavy levels of scepticism towards conspiracist sources and claims as they do towards establishment sources and 'official' versions of events?

Except in odd cases where CTers engage in turf wars between themselves over same-conspiracy detail with other CTers in the same field, I rarely if ever see any CTer ever debunk a CT or accept any possibility that sites like that whale.to, Rense, Alex Jones and Icke are chock full of barkingly insane shite ....
 
i've always thought there's something dodgy about diana's death as well. these type of threads make me despair because even though the official story for all of these things has massive holes in it, why believe something else that's even more blatantly a steaming pile of horseshit?
 
Actually, the Diana narrative is pretty hole free.

And listen, please:

She died because she wasn't wearing a seatbelt. The only person who was wearing a seatbelt was her bodyguard and he lived.

As 8Den pointed out, it's a pretty shit assasination attempt that can be beaten with a seatbelt.
 
:D

someone better tell that to my aunt, she regarded it as a personal attack that she was expected to wear a seatbelt in our car :rolleyes:
 
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