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Conspiraloon Pwnage: Back of the net!

ViolentPanda said:
It's the old equation of "you have the right to call me a Jew bastard, I have the right to punch your nose". One should always expect an equal and opposite reaction to one's actions. :)
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Don't agree with that either, don't think anyone has the right to say that.
 
treelover said:
I still not sure where I stand but sadly it does seem to bear up the old adage,

'scratch a liberal and you find an authoritarian'
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What the fuck is authoritarian for holding someone to account for his views?

Christ, there are some right fucking numpties on here who clearly can't be arsed to read the thread (or simply aren't capable of basic verbal comprehension). That was a meagre attempt at claiming the moral high ground TL, pathetic really. Free speech hasn't been curtailed in any way here - he's had his research fellowship curtailed after his views were found to incompatible with that organisation.

What's wrong with that? Why the hysterical misrepresentation and unnecessary hand-wringing?
 
I know C, but does it always have to seem like Treelover's got cruise control on, duty bound to whizz down the pillock highway without a shred of insight or self control,
 
London_Calling said:
BK - But you haven't said his personal views and professional life overlapped, so I presume they didn't?
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They do overlap. I posted this on the other thread.

ymu said:
Agree. It's the attempt to associate his "academic credentials" (whatever they might be) with his theories to make then seem more credible. He's a scientist not a historian - but his arguments seem to focus on the chemistry of Auschwitz, so it could lend spurious credibility to the claims.

The "science" of Leuchter, and later Rudolf/Scheerer/Gauss was utter bollocks. They chose to compare the amount of residual cyanide in the structures identified by witnesses as gas chambers with the amount in those identified as defumigation facilities.

Now, this is a bad choice to start with because Zyklon was used in both. Surely a better control choice would be the living quarters where no cyanide was alleged to have been used?

But much much more importantly, it takes more cyanide to kill insects than it does humans. Zyklon-B killed humans in less than an hour, but to get rid of lice they needed Zyklon-D or -E, stronger preparations designed to get rid of cold-blooded insects that are much more resistant to cell damage than humans.

In addition, the homicidal gas chambers were ventilated after an hour or so whereas the fumigation chambers had to be left for around 20 hours according to the manufacturers instructions.

IIRC Leuchter recorded his illegal sample gathering and one commentator - Pressac - noted that he appeared to be avoiding areas where residues would be most likely to collect, but gave him the benefit of the doubt given that he had to collect them covertly.

The tests have been repeated, using samples collected from both types of gas chamber and the living quarters. Both types of gas chamber have similar excessive cyanide residues, both far higher than those in the living quarters. Cyanide has also been found in the collections of hair, spectacles and other items taken from the bodies.

Even Rudolf - the only one of the bunch who is actually a competent chemist if a piss poor scientist - now admits that the chemistry alone is not enough to prove or disprove anything about what happened (probably because he realises that the chemistry corroborates the eye-witness accounts). Kollerstrom cannot possibly have applied any scientific critique to the totality of the evidence or he would be presenting more sophisticated arguments - as other deniers have attempted to do in the face of obvious defeat.

He's simply stumbled on some "evidence" that suits his worldview and, if he's even bothered to check up on it, is incapable of critiquing it honestly. Whether this is due to a psychological problem or deliberate manipulation is hard to say, but it's not relevant. The work is so shoddy you'd expect him to face disciplinary proceedings for associating it with his university regardless of the subject matter.
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nah, I just don't like cant, which there is a lot of on p/p these days

btw, I would to know what posters like Idris, LM, Mk12, Durruti, etc feel about all this, as i have said I am not sure, but I certainly don't find BK's glee edifying.
 
Meltingpot said:
Why not? (I'm a holocaust believer btw). I've seen someone deny Stalin's Great Terror on another board (again, which I believe in), so why should the Holocaust be any different?

I do think that if someone consistently spouts discredited arguments that brand a whole class of people as liars (which holocaust denial does) then they should be sued for libel, but that's a different thing from making it a criminal issue, which is wrong and worryingly totalitarian in my view.

As for Kollerstrom, he shouldn't have been sacked as long as he made it clear that he was speaking as a private individual and not as a member of UCL. It's a bad thing when people can be sacked for expressing views which go against the grain of established opinion.
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There's nothing wrong with calling someone to account on their views. If he's going to write things like that which can be writen and read by thousands of people on the internet he should be prepared to face the consequences.

He was writing under his own name, not a pseudonym. Anyone could have searched for it and found that load of contemptible shite.

Which as I and others here have demonstrated is still to some extent mainstream. Its not some persecuted minority trying to bravely tell the truth against a cruel establishment. Its even found among mainstream scholarship on the issue as zionist authors try to portray the holocaust as a solely Jewish event and even deny that anyone else was even killed.

In many cases they are that establishment. Their words hurt real people and lead to still more acts of violence.

Im perfectly prepared to face the consequences of anything I've written on here.

And I dont think people should be jailed for denying the holocaust and tbh i do share some of your concerns about this thread, I'm not going to celebrate whats happened but then I dont have much sympathy for a holocaust denier either.
 
ViolentPanda said:
They did. IIRC from the big "conspiraloon" thread, he used his UCL web-space, and his UCL fellowship, to promote his shit.
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He wrote about holocaust denial as 'Dr Nicholas Kollerstrom, PhD'. He also wrote about 'Eternal War and False Flag Terror' as Dr Nicholas Kollerstrom PhD'

(Not 'Nazi Boy 666' or 'AStro3')

Google his name and you got all his UCL links, you got him listed as a research fellow on UCL's Sci/Tech pages and his research into Neptune was hosted there.

His holocaust research wasn't. BUT, he was quite explicit about his beliefs and by citing his PhD ( in an unrelated subject) when banging on about them, he was clearly attempting to give his views some kind of academic credibility.

Did the Uni want such a person to be associated with them and their academic credibility? No, they did not.

So they revoked his honorary fellowship and removed his name from their web pages, along with his research into Neptune, clearly feeling that a man with such views and such crap standards of research was not someone they wanted to be associated with. The honorary fellowship basically says'' we want to be associated with this academic'': they don't, so they took it back.
 
For those who find it difficult...

Kollestrom was advocating his nauseating views on the holocaust not as a private citizen, but by listing his phd alongside it. Now, leaving aside that this has been used by the 'Climate change, what climate change?' when they wheel out an economist with phd to give their 'expert' views on CC, Kollestrom was doing the same. He was, therefore, using his professional status to lend credibility to his views, and also not making it clear that this status was not as a historian.

Had he been advocating these views entirely as a private citizen I would have had some issues with what's happened, and would have been more inclined to argue that it's UCLs job to do this kind of checking on it's staff, but he didn't - he used his academic credentials to boost his argument, and in doing so is guilty of deception, and as the summary from UCL makes clear, clearly being in direct conflict with the values, aims and goals of the organisation he works for.
 
innit said:
Don't agree with that either, don't think anyone has the right to say that.
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Well, they don't enjoy a legal "right" (article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which is incorporated into the British legal system, provides the right to freedom of expression, subject to certain restrictions that are "in accordance with law" and "necessary in a democratic society". (my emphasis), but as a matter of everyday occurrence, people enjoy the freedom to "speak their mind" as long as they're prepared to accept the consequences of doing so, and "subject to certain restrictions", for example the "hate speech" legislation.

As I said, I'm perfectly happy for someone to call me a "Jew bastard", as long as they're prepared to take their lumps for doing so. :)
 
Badger Kitten said:
He wrote about holocaust denial as 'Dr Nicholas Kollerstrom, PhD'. He also wrote about 'Eternal War and False Flag Terror' as Dr Nicholas Kollerstrom PhD'

(Not 'Nazi Boy 666' or 'AStro3')

Google his name and you got all his UCL links, you got him listed as a research fellow on UCL's Sci/Tech pages and his research into Neptune was hosted there.

His holocaust research wasn't. BUT, he was quite explicit about his beliefs and by citing his PhD ( in an unrelated subject) when banging on about them, he was clearly attempting to give his views some kind of academic credibility.

Did the Uni want such a person to be associated with them and their academic credibility? No, they did not.

So they revoked his honorary fellowship and removed his name from their web pages, along with his research into Neptune, clearly feeling that a man with such views and such crap standards of research was not someone they wanted to be associated with. The honorary fellowship basically says'' we want to be associated with this academic'': they don't, so they took it back.
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Yep.
 
treelover said:
nah, I just don't like cant, which there is a lot of on p/p these days

btw, I would to know what posters like Idris, LM, Mk12, Durruti, etc feel about all this, as i have said I am not sure, but I certainly don't find BK's glee edifying.
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My glee is because this man is a shit who has harassed and heckled me, and people I care about misrepresented me and lied about me, called me a liar and my life a work of fiction, for over 2 years and I am happy, yes, very happy indeed that after all this time he has been exposed as the scumbag he is.

I've always been quite open about the backstory, because, yes, I do have an agenda. The man is a git and he has behaved abominably to me, personally . I am not some kind of saint who rises above this systemmatic abuse and doesn't find it hurtful and distressing; I am flipping thrilled that this has happened, as I expect anyone else who had gone through this would be.
 
ViolentPanda said:
Well, they don't enjoy a legal "right" (article 10 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which is incorporated into the British legal system, provides the right to freedom of expression, subject to certain restrictions that are "in accordance with law" and "necessary in a democratic society". (my emphasis), but as a matter of everyday occurrence, people enjoy the freedom to "speak their mind" as long as they're prepared to accept the consequences of doing so, and "subject to certain restrictions", for example the "hate speech" legislation.

As I said, I'm perfectly happy for someone to call me a "Jew bastard", as long as they're prepared to take their lumps for doing so. :)
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Same here. Holocaust deniers have the right to free speech and we have the equal and opposite right to respond.
 
treelover said:
nah, I just don't like cant, which there is a lot of on p/p these days

btw, I would to know what posters like Idris, LM, Mk12, Durruti, etc feel about all this, as i have said I am not sure...
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Then read the fucking thread, as several of them have expressed views on it.
but I certainly don't find BK's glee edifying.
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"Glee"?
Well, I suppose you could call it "glee" if you were looking for a value-laden word to describe satisfaction.
 
me said:
Its even found among mainstream scholarship on the issue as zionist authors try to portray the holocaust as a solely Jewish event and even deny that anyone else was even killed.
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Just to clarify im using "zionist" in its normal, acceptable meaning of "Jewish nationalists" just in case someone gets the wrong idea :D :D
 
treelover said:
I still not sure where I stand but sadly it does seem to bear up the old adage,

'scratch a liberal and you find an authoritarian'
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No, I think, scratch a conspiraloon and you find a bullying, deceitful, can't-research-for-toffee mis representative Judeaophobe fruitbat is more apt
 
treelover said:
nah, I just don't like cant, which there is a lot of on p/p these days

btw, I would to know what posters like Idris, LM, Mk12, Durruti, etc feel about all this, as i have said I am not sure, but I certainly don't find BK's glee edifying.
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Being an honorary research fellow I wouldn't expect to remain one for very long if I came out with the dangerous rubbish that NK has put his name to. I also wouldn't have used my unrelated academic title to try and give the rubbish credence. In addition I would expect to get a huge (and I mean vast) amount of flak from my employer; e.g. the requirement to make a very public and contrite apology to my colleagues and students for brining the institution into disrepute and give a written undertaking not to associate the institution with the promotion of such dangerous rubbish in the future.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice
 
cesare said:
Awr :p

Actually, given the subject matter, I thought that thread stayed remarkably well on track. So credit to the conspiracy theorists there. Has probably given everyone a great deal of food for thought I reckon.
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Yeah quite.
 
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