Charlottesville aftermath discussion thread...

[butchersapron]

Always useful to point out that Vice was bought up by Murdoch a couple of years back.

Why do people keep saying this? He has about less than 10% of it. It's like the flip-side of the soros runs everything nonsense.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Why do people keep saying this? He has about less than 10% of it. It's like the flip-side of the soros runs everything nonsense.

Fair enough, and thanks for the clarification. It's still useful to point out that just because Vice output can be popular and rather trendy in it's production and content, it is far from free of reactionary potential, as shown by J Eds observation.

 

[butchersapron]

A real danger - and it's one i can see developing already - is slipping into a sort of apolitical anti-fascist obsession. An anti-fascism that lines up with the progressive neo-liberals, the people whose policies and actions have produced the conditions that have bred a resurgent public fascism. Because, at least they're non-racist. That alone doesn't make them on our side. All sorts of non-racists busy right now producing racists and fascists. Not a particularly original thing to say i know, but it's just going to happen again isn't it? The lesser evilism electoral tactics that have helped lead us to this situation just transferred to another arena - and probably led by the same people and interests.

 

[YouSir]

There needs to be more than one approach - the hardcore ideologists- the ones who attended this event need countering with physical force. The people they're trying to manipulate and exploit need a diff approach - at least when they're first getting into this stuff. One based on what is driving them towards these groups - what's producing them. A political response. Of course, where the two cross streams publicly at things like then it's the first option at that point.

On IGD last week there was an interview with an ex-nazi, of the original hammerskins and de facto leader of 2nd generation of CASH (i'm just finishing reading his autobiography) who now runs an anti-group helping people from the 2nd group to 'transition' out of nazism and fascism and he has some v interesting ideas on how to do this. May be good time for people to have a listen to it.

Just ordered his book, any other recommendations on stuff by people who got out/work getting people out?

 

[sunnysidedown]

Fair enough, and thanks for the clarification. It's still useful to point out that just because Vice output can be popular and rather trendy in it's production and content, it is far from free of reactionary potential, as shown by J Eds observation.

Vice were the original bourgeois hipster nihilists way back when. It was always a fertile ground for the shit fucks currently popping up in the viewfinder.

 

[8den]

Vice were the original bourgeois hipster nihilists way back when. It was always a fertile ground for the shit fucks currently popping up in the viewfinder.

Yes, There are lots of actual reasons to loath Vice, (its treatment of freelancers, the layoffs just days after receiving a massive funding boost) without imagining Murdoch's tentacles all over it.

 

[spring-peeper]

I'm sorta glad that them people got hit and I'm glad that girl died,” Moore said in a voicemail to WBTV. “They were a bunch of Communists out there protesting against somebody’s freedom of speech, so it doesn't bother me that they got hurt at all.”

“I think we're going to see more stuff like this happening at white nationalist events,” Moore warned.

‘I'm glad that girl died’ during Virginia protest, says NC KKK leader


*sigh*

 

[redsquirrel]

There needs to be more than one approach - the hardcore ideologists- the ones who attended this event need countering with physical force. The people they're trying to manipulate and exploit need a diff approach - at least when they're first getting into this stuff. One based on what is driving them towards these groups - what's producing them. A political response. Of course, where the two cross streams publicly at things like then it's the first option at that point.

Yep

 

[extra dry]

Some Are Troubled By Online Shaming Of Charlottesville Rally Participants

 

[Pickman's model]

‘I'm glad that girl died’ during Virginia protest, says NC KKK leader


*sigh*

Can't you see his pov?

 

[pengaleng]

swear down yous need to stop watching the news

 

[killer b]

A real danger - and it's one i can see developing already - is slipping into a sort of apolitical anti-fascist obsession. An anti-fascism that lines up with the progressive neo-liberals, the people whose policies and actions have produced the conditions that have bred a resurgent public fascism. Because, at least they're non-racist. That alone doesn't make them on our side. All sorts of non-racists busy right now producing racists and fascists. Not a particularly original thing to say i know, but it's just going to happen again isn't it? The lesser evilism electoral tactics that have helped lead us to this situation just transferred to another arena - and probably led by the same people and interests.

Echoes some points in this Angela nagle article I was just reading (it isn't all Good, but this section is nailed on imo)

https://thebaffler.com/latest/goodbye-pepe

The almost cartoonish villainy of the far right will enable the center to consolidate its power—and that could, perversely enough, produce another wave of purification and witch-hunting of the kind that a newly vibrant and increasingly popular Anglophone left was starting to finally overcome. We may see, for example, a resurgent American centrist and neocon embark on a cynical guilt-by-association bid to use alt-right rhetoric against leftist opponents of Syrian “regime change,” because the alt-right also argued against U.S. intervention in Syria. Similarly, leftists who opposed Hillary Clinton or have stressed the role of “economic anxieties” of downwardly mobile whites in the rise of the Trumpian right may start catching flak for excusing and thus enabling Nazis. Indeed, if any of the great historians of the Nazi period wrote their books today, they’d be denounced for larding their accounts with such interpretive context, as they all did, because context has now been reclassified as blame-shifting.

 

[Manter]

I think you're right to some extent, but I certainly wouldn't like to bet on it being so simple as general disavowal. At the very least it'll be something of a bellwether for far-right confidence, i.e. how comfortable they feel openly supporting him, and what happens to anyone who does.

Nazis on twitter are claiming false flag and that he was a BLM activist. No one prominent has picked it up, and not sure they will. Suspect Spencer's 'he was really scared after being attacked' narrative may win.

But they are certainly very busy rationalising it

 

[butchersapron]

Sounds to me like she's not been following the formation of left-right, red-brown support for Assad very closely. Nor the issue at all given the 'regime change' way she's framed it. This was the major problem with her book. Very lightweight and missing loads of political stuff that this requires knowing about. And the interviews and podcast stuff I've heard from her backs that up.

 

[rekil]

When people choose to use the joo obsessed conspiraloon milieu as their primary, and often only, information source for Syria, perhaps there's a bit more to it than just being guilty by association Angela.

Also lol at liked by Casually "Assad or burn the country" Brown.

 

[killer b]

Also lol at liked by Casually "Assad or burn the country" Brown.

This was the first sign that I might have missed something...

 

[butchersapron]

Just ordered his book, any other recommendations on stuff by people who got out/work getting people out?

Only other thing i recall ever reading from ex-types - apart from pretty short newsparer articles that all say the same thing - Führer Ex by Ingo Hasselbach years ago. Oddly enough, despite the very different context the motivations and attractions he reported were v similar to the ones Piccioloni offers.

edit: oh yeah, the Picciolini one is well shit tbh - nothing like the interview i recced.

 

[Idris2002]

I've just seen a thread on twitter which claims that there are reports of far-right weapons caches being discovered in Charlottesville. I say "hysterical" because it compares this situation to Rwanda on the eve of the genocide. . . . Anyone know more about this one?

 

[butchersapron]

This seems to be the entirety of it - and we know we shouldn't be trusting this man:

Virginia governor Terry McAuliffe revealed on Monday that the far right activists had hidden caches of weapons around the city. “They had battering rams and we had picked up different weapons that they had stashed around the city,” McAuliffe told civil rights campaigner DeRay Mckesson on his podcast Pod Save the People.

A podcast of the sort of obama/clinton insiders - the type of people who'd call you alt-left idris.

 

[butchersapron]

...and just looked at twitter on this, fucking Rwanda. Jesus christ. Glad to see these types are not panicking or trying to manipulate or anything.

 

[Idris2002]

...and just looked at twitter on this, fucking Rwanda. Jesus christ. Glad to see these types are not panicking or trying to manipulate or anything.

Pro bono publico, no bloody panicko.

 

[butchersapron]

Pro bono publico, no bloody panicko.

I see they've also claimed it wasn't for a genocidal massacre involving the death of millions oddly enough but for a militia takeover of the town. These people really need to update the maps and understand that the militias are the weak points here, they're the ones backing off from the ideological fascists, the ones rowing with them physically from within that weak weak coalition, the ones who will break. They will not have planted battering rams and other stuff - the actual ideological fascists will have done that (if anyone did). Not that these posh college boys would have got their own hands dirty in a proper uprising. I say again, update maps.

 

[Idris2002]

I see they've also claimed it wasn't for a genocidal massacre involving the death of millions oddly enough but for a militia takeover of the town. These people really need to update the maps and understand that the militias are the weak points here, they're the ones backing off from the ideological fascists, the ones rowing with them physically from within that weak weak coalition, the ones who will break. They will not have planted battering rams and other stuff - the actual ideological fascists will have done that (if anyone did). Not that these posh college boys would have got their own hands dirty in a proper uprising. I say again, update maps.

Actually the death toll in Rwanda was roughly 800,000 to 1 mil, but I take your point. Also, the posh college boys have enough loser fuck-ups hanging on their coat-tails to send out as cannon fodder (let's not forget that they've already started killing people, also).

 

[likesfish]

Militia leaders who descended on Charlottesville condemn 'rightwing lunatics'


The milita come across as navie cosplaying idiots all the gear no idea and looking for something to do want to play at being soldiers but dont fancy being told what to do .

They havn't shot anyone yet but frankly thats more by luck than outstanding discipline

 

[sim667]

Has this twat been posted yet?

 

[butchersapron]

Might as well have this old classic as well i suppose:

Spoiler: Can't even nazi

 

[ViolentPanda]

Brutal attacks on, and denying space to, the Neo-Nazi and far right elements, more political engaging and understanding of the other disenfranchised bits of the movement.

Less moralistic sneering at the poor and angry would be a good start for much of the US left.

The moralistic sneering is a function of the US left being overwhelmingly middle class, and so having the same irrational fear of "the poor and angry" as the liberal left in the UK.

 

[Miss Caphat]

An article on the timeline of the removal of Confederate Flags, and then statues, and the debate around these things and the anger it has stirred up, etc.

Whose Heritage? Public Symbols of the Confederacy

"Following the Charleston massacre, the Southern Poverty Law Center launched an effort to catalog and map Confederate place names and other symbols in public spaces, both in the South and across the nation. This study, while far from comprehensive, identified a total of 1,503.*

These include:

• 718 monuments and statues, nearly 300 of which are in Georgia, Virginia or North Carolina;
• 109 public schools named for Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis or other Confederate icons;
• 80 counties and cities named for Confederates;
• 9 official Confederate holidays in six states; and
• 10 U.S. military bases named for Confederates."

 

[bimble]

Tough time for satirists it really is.

"

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Psychologists surveyed hundreds of alt-right supporters. The results are unsettling.