Charlottesville aftermath discussion thread...
- Thread starter Nylock
- Start date
no-no
Small robot you know
I dunno, I've seen the cops standing off when the anti fash have had the upper hand too. Seems to me they don't care about people beating the shit out of each other.
As long as the police act like spectators this will continue.
The fact facists act on their own away from protests isn't a reason not to control them when they try to congregate in large numbers....the one's who have form at least...anti fash with form too.
It can't be a bad thing to remove anyone attending who's clearly prepared for violence.
As long as the police act like spectators this will continue.
The fact facists act on their own away from protests isn't a reason not to control them when they try to congregate in large numbers....the one's who have form at least...anti fash with form too.
It can't be a bad thing to remove anyone attending who's clearly prepared for violence.
Obediah Marsh
Active Member
If that statue doesn't come down, and soon, this will be a very good day for the racists. They've made it clear they're willing to kill to protect it. If the authorities now hesitate to tear it down, it will be a clear signal that they're afraid of these extremists. This will embolden them even more. Pull it down now.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Statist liberal position. Armed militias are something we should definitely have.
bimble
floofy
The statues are coming down, i think, some will come down officially others not
Confederate statue toppled in North Carolina during anti-racism rally
Undeterred, U.S. cities ramp up removal of Confederate statues
Mation
real life adventure worth more than pieces of gold
Obediah Marsh
Active Member
That's good but it's not enough. The mayor of this town needs to go there tomorrow with armed men and bulldozers to smash that particular statue to rubble. If it's still standing a year from now the 'battle of Charlottesville' will have been a huge victory for the racists.
Miss Caphat
I want it that way
Which is precisely what has happened / is happening.
If anyone hadn't heard of "antifa" before yesterday, they have now. And they did a great job of making them seem like very very scary ghoulies. Who "this would have never happened if it weren't for" their presence.
If anyone hadn't heard "what about BLM?" before yesterday, they have now.
If anyone hadn't heard "It's the liberals / leftist violence that caused this" before yesterday, they have now.
The propaganda machines were out in full force over the weekend.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
One possibly "encouraging" aspect of the events is that the attendance (1000 ish?) wasn't actually that large. Perhaps it's as well that it's had an impact beyond those numbers in terms of the revulsion among US liberal types, the emphasised obvious of how Trump supporters can overlap with far right interests. Obviously, attention and revulsion were increased by the awful terrorist murder (and the helicopter deaths).
Yet the events could also galvanise fascists and sympathisers. That said, apologism and distractionism from nazis and fellow travellers has been fairly weak and predictable (though typically disgusting). With any luck, some right-inclined Trump types may now back off from this kind of politics but I daresay that the far right will internally turn this into the stuff of legend and have the bug to generate more of the same.
Yet the events could also galvanise fascists and sympathisers. That said, apologism and distractionism from nazis and fellow travellers has been fairly weak and predictable (though typically disgusting). With any luck, some right-inclined Trump types may now back off from this kind of politics but I daresay that the far right will internally turn this into the stuff of legend and have the bug to generate more of the same.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Only anecdotal on my part, but on this occasion I sense the liberals have found the far right far more repulsive than their opponents.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Almost no one turned up to oppose them the night before the clashes and the murder of Heather Heyer, the police allowed them to run rampant and they brutally attacked the ten or so individuals who did turn up to oppose them while the police watched.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Copied and pasted from Facebook
From a comrade who was at Charlottesville:
Took me a couple days but it's time.
To anyone who watched Cville from a far, I want to remind you of something.
What that coward did plowing into a crowd of people from the safety of his car and then retreating to safety was not only an act of cowardice but an act of desperation. With 95% of news reports focusing on the attack, there has been very little coverage of how the rest of the day went for the Nazis, so consider this a PSA.
Make no mistake, Charlottesville was an unconditional defeat for the Nazis and the Fash. The day started out with hundreds of Nazis occupying Emancipation Park fully outfitted in makeshift riot gear and surrounded by a contingent of right wing militia in full battle rattle. It ended with 700+ antifascist protestors marching on the final 70 Nazis that were stupid enough to not leave the city. Antifascist demonstrators, outnumbered close to 4 to 1, literally fought an uphill battle through a single choke point against an army of assholes with shields, clubs, and a seemingly endless supply of OC spray with little more than our fists and our flags. The Nazis said they were going to hold Emancipation park and we choked them with their words. Within an hour, the park belonged to Charlottesville again, and the Fash were on the run in all directions. On multiple occasions I saw groups of maybe 5 or 6 protestors chasing off groups of Nazis five to eight times their size.
Festivities began at probably around 930 or 10 and by 1130, the entirety of downtown Cville belonged to Charlottesville, thanks to all of the various groups and individuals that came out to defend it. Once victory in the park was assured and the Nazis completed their general retreat, packed into their church vans and got the fuck out of dodge, all of the Cville defenders regrouped, rehydrated, and answered a call to defend a small group of protestors from approximately 70 Fash that were harassing them. We stepped off by the hundreds and marched with impunity through downtown with cheering from the sidewalks and the cars. About a block away from where the attack occurred, the bloc with which I was a part of converged with another contingent of antifascist protestors, bringing our total number to AT LEAST 700 (I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it were closer to 1,000).
That's when the Nazis pulled out their Trump card to try to win the day. This cowardly piece of shit who's name doesn't even deserve being written couldn't cope with the fact that his little group of friends had fucking lost. They came out expecting Berkeley 2 and left in bandages and shame. When the left suffers a defeat, we sit with it, accept it, and learn from it, but these assholes can't accept that their shitty 'master race' is one of utter inferiority and resort to attacking innocent people from the safety of 4,000 pounds of metal.
And even in such a moment of horror, we came out on top. Faced with a situation that none of us expected, street medics and medically trained protestors responded in seconds by the dozens. The following hours long minutes were filled with the greatest acts of compassion for comrades that I have ever witnessed. Medics stayed cool, calm, and collected while providing life saving interventions and preparing accurate and complete patient assessments. By the time EMS arrived, early interventions were mostly complete, and prepared assessments were given allowing triage to be completed accurately but with haste, so that EMS could immediately begin evacing and transporting patients to higher care. It's a devastating shame that our comrade and fellow worker Heather Heyer had to give the ultimate sacrifice for a cause in which they believed, but I have no doubt that if it weren't for the actions of the first responders, there would have been several others that would suffer the same fate.
So with that, I would like to conclude this poorly thought out piece of writing with this: Consider the victims of Saturday's attack. They weren't a small isolated group of protestors, nor were they in the middle or rear ranks of the bloc marching to the final showdown of the day. They were in the very front. Our comrades were going to be the first to tell the final Nazis that their bullshit isn't going to stand; not in Cville, not on the East Coast, not in America, and not on the entire fucking planet. Every single one of them is a hero of the highest degree, and don't fucking forget that. From here on out, we each need to strive to be where they were, to be the tip of the spear against the rise of fascism in this country. So next time you here of a gathering of fascists, be it five or five-hundred, show up. Show up for yourself, show up for all victims of fascism past, present, and future, and show up for Heather Heyer and all our comrades at the front who risked life and limb for our cause and the greater good.
Prior to Saturday, prominent neonazi Richard Spencer said that Charlottesville was going to be a turning point; that "people are going to speak in terms of 'before Charlottesville' and 'after Charlottesville'". Let's show him exactly what that means.
From a comrade who was at Charlottesville:
Took me a couple days but it's time.
To anyone who watched Cville from a far, I want to remind you of something.
What that coward did plowing into a crowd of people from the safety of his car and then retreating to safety was not only an act of cowardice but an act of desperation. With 95% of news reports focusing on the attack, there has been very little coverage of how the rest of the day went for the Nazis, so consider this a PSA.
Make no mistake, Charlottesville was an unconditional defeat for the Nazis and the Fash. The day started out with hundreds of Nazis occupying Emancipation Park fully outfitted in makeshift riot gear and surrounded by a contingent of right wing militia in full battle rattle. It ended with 700+ antifascist protestors marching on the final 70 Nazis that were stupid enough to not leave the city. Antifascist demonstrators, outnumbered close to 4 to 1, literally fought an uphill battle through a single choke point against an army of assholes with shields, clubs, and a seemingly endless supply of OC spray with little more than our fists and our flags. The Nazis said they were going to hold Emancipation park and we choked them with their words. Within an hour, the park belonged to Charlottesville again, and the Fash were on the run in all directions. On multiple occasions I saw groups of maybe 5 or 6 protestors chasing off groups of Nazis five to eight times their size.
Festivities began at probably around 930 or 10 and by 1130, the entirety of downtown Cville belonged to Charlottesville, thanks to all of the various groups and individuals that came out to defend it. Once victory in the park was assured and the Nazis completed their general retreat, packed into their church vans and got the fuck out of dodge, all of the Cville defenders regrouped, rehydrated, and answered a call to defend a small group of protestors from approximately 70 Fash that were harassing them. We stepped off by the hundreds and marched with impunity through downtown with cheering from the sidewalks and the cars. About a block away from where the attack occurred, the bloc with which I was a part of converged with another contingent of antifascist protestors, bringing our total number to AT LEAST 700 (I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it were closer to 1,000).
That's when the Nazis pulled out their Trump card to try to win the day. This cowardly piece of shit who's name doesn't even deserve being written couldn't cope with the fact that his little group of friends had fucking lost. They came out expecting Berkeley 2 and left in bandages and shame. When the left suffers a defeat, we sit with it, accept it, and learn from it, but these assholes can't accept that their shitty 'master race' is one of utter inferiority and resort to attacking innocent people from the safety of 4,000 pounds of metal.
And even in such a moment of horror, we came out on top. Faced with a situation that none of us expected, street medics and medically trained protestors responded in seconds by the dozens. The following hours long minutes were filled with the greatest acts of compassion for comrades that I have ever witnessed. Medics stayed cool, calm, and collected while providing life saving interventions and preparing accurate and complete patient assessments. By the time EMS arrived, early interventions were mostly complete, and prepared assessments were given allowing triage to be completed accurately but with haste, so that EMS could immediately begin evacing and transporting patients to higher care. It's a devastating shame that our comrade and fellow worker Heather Heyer had to give the ultimate sacrifice for a cause in which they believed, but I have no doubt that if it weren't for the actions of the first responders, there would have been several others that would suffer the same fate.
So with that, I would like to conclude this poorly thought out piece of writing with this: Consider the victims of Saturday's attack. They weren't a small isolated group of protestors, nor were they in the middle or rear ranks of the bloc marching to the final showdown of the day. They were in the very front. Our comrades were going to be the first to tell the final Nazis that their bullshit isn't going to stand; not in Cville, not on the East Coast, not in America, and not on the entire fucking planet. Every single one of them is a hero of the highest degree, and don't fucking forget that. From here on out, we each need to strive to be where they were, to be the tip of the spear against the rise of fascism in this country. So next time you here of a gathering of fascists, be it five or five-hundred, show up. Show up for yourself, show up for all victims of fascism past, present, and future, and show up for Heather Heyer and all our comrades at the front who risked life and limb for our cause and the greater good.
Prior to Saturday, prominent neonazi Richard Spencer said that Charlottesville was going to be a turning point; that "people are going to speak in terms of 'before Charlottesville' and 'after Charlottesville'". Let's show him exactly what that means.
bimble
floofy
Any idea what church vans means ?
no-no
Small robot you know
This is what I'm saying. the police don't seem to care if antifa and the fash are bashing each other's heads in. What if literally no one turned up to oppose them? They'd have some speeches....they'd have nothing to rail against, little to get riled up about. If they did kick off the police would have to contain it and they'd have no one else they could blame for starting the violence. Those 10 that got attacked formed a ring around the jefferson statue, why bother though? Had they not been there what would have happened?
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
ever heard of "give them an inch..." ?
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
They also attacked black people for having the temerity to walk around while black in the area that they live in. You'd have an increase in that, with public spaces being controlled by the far-right who would control who goes in and out of them on a racial and ideological basis.
spring-peeper
Well-Known Member
It's a van that the church has to transport their faithful from one activity to the next.
Not sure if it is meant figuratively or not. It just stirs up images of like minded people traveling.
bimble
floofy
Thanks! But yeah I did do that, thinking maybe in US it might something different from people carrier with name of church painted on the side.
Was hoping someone might know whether (as that persons account suggests) groups of white supremacists tuned up in vehicles emblazoned with the name of their Christian congregations on, or what. Maybe it was just a figure of speech, not anything to do with actual churches.
no-no
Small robot you know
The cops would be able to better protect the civilians if there weren't an extra 700 plus people involved in street skirmishes no? Would the chief of police allow his cops to be seen standing by whilst nazis attack civillians? They can get away with standing by if the people gettign hit are also kitted out with shields and sticks.
I don't understand why the unite the right mob weren't kettled into the park and the antifa kettled or led elsewhere.
bimble
floofy
Your faith in the police is charming. I get that you're saying if everyone just stayed home there's be less violence but no, the people who show up and put their bodies in the way of the fascists get my full respect, I am grateful to them for not staying away not giving up public space to the nazis without a fight even for a day.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
The blonde journo was the same one who interviewed Richard Spencer with the interview style of 'act stoned, get berated' and it seems to be the same one that she is using here. I think it's deliberatley inaffective, Vice clearly has people in it who are sympathetic to fascists. One of their co-founders now runs a fascist TV programme.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
they need to be opposed with large numbers and with physical force . The NF stopped marching in the UK because they were always outnumbered and were consistently met with a shower of rubble. They need to be fucking stamped on whenever they crawl out from under their rocks. That is the lesson of history.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
There needs to be more than one approach - the hardcore ideologists- the ones who attended this event need countering with physical force. The people they're trying to manipulate and exploit need a diff approach - at least when they're first getting into this stuff. One based on what is driving them towards these groups - what's producing them. A political response. Of course, where the two cross streams publicly at things like then it's the first option at that point.
On IGD last week there was an interview with an ex-nazi, of the original hammerskins and de facto leader of 2nd generation of CASH (i'm just finishing reading his autobiography) who now runs an anti-group helping people from the 2nd group to 'transition' out of nazism and fascism and he has some v interesting ideas on how to do this. May be good time for people to have a listen to it.
On IGD last week there was an interview with an ex-nazi, of the original hammerskins and de facto leader of 2nd generation of CASH (i'm just finishing reading his autobiography) who now runs an anti-group helping people from the 2nd group to 'transition' out of nazism and fascism and he has some v interesting ideas on how to do this. May be good time for people to have a listen to it.
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taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Always useful to point out that Vice was bought up by Murdoch a couple of years back.
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