Charlottesville aftermath discussion thread...

[redsquirrel]

I accept that many liberals have been attacking class based politics.I also accept that not all "liberals" are against socialists.

But liberalism is opposed to socialism, that's the point. Your faux naïveté isn't fooling anyone.

Right, so you accept that Antifa is not comprised solely of socialists. At last, we're getting somewhere.

I didn't say that, I said that the group was not liberal regardless of the politics of individual members.

 

[krtek a houby]

But liberalism is opposed to socialism, that's the point. Your faux naïveté isn't fooling anyone.

I didn't say that, I said that the group was not liberal regardless of the politics of individual members.

LOL. My faux naievete. Finally, we get to the passive aggressive phase.

Must have seen a different Charlottsville. Didn't see or hear any antifa baying for blood of liberals; the real enemy. Why was that,do you think?

Could it be that on that day the antifa present targetted the nazis rather than push the narrative of killing progressives or burying liberals? Why would they do that?

 

[redsquirrel]

Seriously you're going to accuse other people of passive aggressiveness after the crap you've come out with on this thread (and others) over the last few days.

I've seen plenty of ANTIFA people and supporters criticising liberalism and liberals, including their views of how to deal with fascism. ANTIFA's whole ethos is in opposition to the liberal bullshit pushed by pricks like Noah Taylor.

 

[seventh bullet]

He's just gently settling back into his old routines.

 

[krtek a houby]

Seriously you're going to accuse other people of passive aggressiveness after the crap you've come out with on this thread (and others) over the last few days.

I've seen plenty of ANTIFA people and supporters criticising liberalism and liberals, including their views of how to deal with fascism. ANTIFA's whole ethos is in opposition to the liberal bullshit pushed by pricks like Noah Taylor.

I've not been passive aggressive. The narrative changes every few posts and it makes my head spin, trying to make sense of it all.

All this kill the liberals stuff is every bit as divisive as you claim the liberals are.

I mean, jesus, Noah Taylor???? Wtf?

The people who stood up to nazis, just like Cable Street are fucking heroes. But you seem to think they are solely there to attack celebs and actors and those who haven't signed up to socialism?

Sigh.

 

[krtek a houby]

He's just gently settling back into his old routines.

Just some robust debate, rather than wishing other posters dead.

 

[seventh bullet]

And smearing people as fascists and racists.

 

[krtek a houby]

And smearing people as fascists and racists.

The KKK are fascists and racists. Or are they just misunderstood?

 

[seventh bullet]

Am I, and all the others you screamed at last year?

 

[krtek a houby]

Am I, and all the others you screamed at last year?

You're a non entity, as far as I'm concerned. I'm talking about the KKK and nazis in Charlottsville. The type of person you'd shit your pants if you actually ran into.

But no; your fantasy is to bury female posters and wish others to kill themselves.

 

[redsquirrel]

I've not been passive aggressive. The narrative changes every few posts and it makes my head spin, trying to make sense of it all.

The "narrative" (and if you want an example of your passive aggression, then that's a belter) has been consistent from the first. People have made the point, backed up by evidence, that socialism and liberalism are different, opposing, political philosophies.

I mean, jesus, Noah Taylor???? Wtf?

You asked for examples of liberals who attacked ANTIFA, you're provided with them and now those evil socialists are just being mean.

IThe people who stood up to nazis, just like Cable Street are fucking heroes. But you seem to think they are solely there to attack celebs and actors and those who haven't signed up to socialism?

I've made no such claim but I know that their politics are pretty obviously opposed to the politics of liberals who do not believe in opposing fascism by force and think ANTIFA are part of the problem.

 

[krtek a houby]

The "narrative" (and if you want an example of your passive aggression, then that's a belter) has been consistent from the first. People have made the point, backed up by evidence, that socialism and liberalism are different, opposing, political philosophies.

You asked for examples of liberals who attacked ANTIFA, you're provided with them and now those evil socialists are just being mean.

I've made no such claim but I know that their politics are pretty obviously opposed to the politics of liberals who do not believe in opposing fascism by force and think ANTIFA are part of the problem.

Ugh. People keep saying that liberalism is different. And I don't disagree there. But unfortunately for you, not everyone falls into the nazi or socialist camp.There's a middle ground, whether you like it or not. This doesn't mean liberalism (whatever that is these days) is the answer. But wanting to off people because they don't follow your particular plan of confrontation/direct action isn't going to win converts. In my view.

I still don't get the Trevor Noah reference.Pardon my dumb ass and all, you're going to have to be a bit more detailed on that particular enemny.

 

[seventh bullet]

You're a non entity, as far as I'm concerned. I'm talking about the KKK and nazis in Charlottsville. The type of person you'd shit your pants if you actually ran into.

But no; your fantasy is to bury female posters and wish others to kill themselves.

I'm a misogynist as well now.

 

[seventh bullet]

Ugh. People keep saying that liberalism is different. And I don't disagree there. But unfortunately for you, not everyone falls into the nazi or socialist camp.There's a middle ground, whether you like it or not. This doesn't mean liberalism (whatever that is these days) is the answer. But wanting to off people because they don't follow your particular plan of confrontation/direct action isn't going to win converts. In my view.

I still don't get the Trevor Noah reference.Pardon my dumb ass and all, you're going to have to be a bit more detailed on that particular enemny.

What did liberals do to Indonesia?

 

[krtek a houby]

I'm a misogynist as well now.

Not my fault. It goes with the territory of internet hardman, right?

 

[seventh bullet]

Not my fault. It goes with the territory of internet hardman, right?

Go on. Substantiate.

 

[krtek a houby]

What did liberals do to Indonesia?

I don't know. Is this an opportunity for you to show off your superior knowledge? Fill your boots...

 

[krtek a houby]

Go on. Substantiate.

What, you didn't hope to bury CRI, then?

Well hard.

 

[seventh bullet]

That I hoped my mixed race children will bury her kind?

 

[redsquirrel]

Ugh. People keep saying that liberalism is different. And I don't disagree there. But unfortunately for you, not everyone falls into the nazi or socialist camp.

FFS, that's the whole fucking point that I and plenty of others have been making for years. Liberalism and liberals are another "camp", one that is antagonist to socialism.

I still don't get the Trevor Noah reference.Pardon my dumb ass and all, you're going to have to be a bit more detailed on that particular enemny.

For Christ's sake you quoted him yourself in post 546 (and also mentioned him in #556)

But he's not totally far off the mark when he says
"Because your opponents, they’ll just use every violent incident to discredit your entire movement, and they make it seem like—they make it seem like—in a world where white supremacists have a friend in the White House, the real problem is you guys."
I don't think he's dissing antifa as such,just pointing out that antifa can be smeared and unfairly compared to the nazis. Which they are not.Isn't that what he'sgettingat?Or have I read him wrong on this statement?

 

[krtek a houby]

That I hoped my mixed race children will bury her kind?

Search and ye shall find - If I ever have sprogs, I hope they bury people like you.

So not so hard after all; leaving the dirty work to your children like the good little coward you are and too timid to make it an outright threat.

My bad. Still, at least you've moved on from seeing everyone other than caucasian as "non white".

 

[krtek a houby]

FFS, that's the whole fucking point that I and plenty of others have been making for years. Liberalism and liberals are another "camp", one that is antagonist to socialism.


For Christ's sake you quoted him yourself in post 546 (and also mentioned him in #556)

Yeah and you've been banging on about Noah Taylor.

Who is Noah Taylor? I was referring to Trevor Noah.

 

[redsquirrel]

Christ, less than a week and you're already back to this crap. I thought this was supposed to be a new beginning.

 

[redsquirrel]

Yeah and you've been banging on about Noah Taylor.

Who is Noah Taylor? I was referring to Trevor Noah.

Sorry that was my fault, I meant Noah Taylor. Blame the lack of coffee.

 

[krtek a houby]

Christ, less than a week and you're already back to this crap. I thought this was supposed to be a new beginning.

So, you're not going to tell me who Noah Taylor is?

I've been engaging with your shifting obfuscating rhetoric, trying to make sense of it but of course; I'm back to my old crap, again.

 

[seventh bullet]

She posted about the irredeemable racism of specifically white working class people which completely contradicts actual lived experience. While pushing a politics which creates the very conditions for fascism to spread.

And of course, communism will win.

You tried the last one when you were busy crying that I am a fascist and racist over Brexit (wrongly assuming I voted) , which even Ruita pulled you up on. Crazy and nasty concerning my partner, who is not white and is disappointingly also not middle class.

 

[krtek a houby]

Sorry that was my fault, I meant Noah Taylor. Blame the lack of coffee.

Aaargh.

Ok, let's reset.

I don't see things the same way you do. But I'm not the fucking enemy. You can't browbeat people if they don't have the same view as you.Unless they're nazis,of course.

I wish people here would stop these squabbles and go out and use their arguments against people who are actual nazis, rather than liberal boogiemen. Bad or not bad.

 

[TomUS]

Unlike a Leave vote liberalism is not a position on a single issue but a political philosophy, one that is both opposed to socialism and responsible for the dismantling of the welfare state and the killing of millions.

Depends on the country. In the US liberalism is responsible for creating what welfare state there is. FDR, LBJ, the Clintons, Obama and Sanders were/are liberals. Socialism, for all practical purposes doesn't exist in the US, except as tiny fringe groups that don't get candidates elected to national office.

 

[redsquirrel]

I wish people here would stop these squabbles and go out and use their arguments against people who are actual nazis, rather than liberal boogiemen. Bad or not bad.

This is just utterly dishonest. The whole last section of this thread has been about the attacks liberals have made on those with (in the broadest sense) socialist politics, you specifically asked for and were given examples of these attacks.

 

[redsquirrel]

Depends on the country. In the US liberalism is responsible for creating what welfare state there is. FDR, LBJ, the Clintons, Obama and Sanders were/are liberals. Socialism, for all practical purposes doesn't exist in the US, except as tiny fringe groups that don't get candidates elected to national office.

No, labour created the welfare state.

And at least two of the liberals you've cited went out of their way to not only attack the welfare state but destroy any (left) opposition to those attacks.