Charlottesville aftermath discussion thread...

[ddraig]

Proof positive that one's diet is no barrier to being a total fuckwit.

indeed!! see also the vegan cupcake nazi dicks!

 

[NoXion]

indeed!! see also the vegan cupcake nazi dicks!

The what now?

 

[ddraig]

The what now?

couple of years ago
Boycott Cakes N’ Treats – Vegan Cake Shop in Camden

 

[Andrew Hertford]

I reckon some people could do with a read of this on the ground article about the necessity for a diversity of tactics and how this played out over the weekend. If you can make post after post attacking the people there and their actions you could at least spend 5 minutes reading this.

That article describes how Charlottesville came together as a community to successfully defend against the fascists using peaceful tactics. It mentions that someone got pepper sprayed and that Jason Kessler was “run out of town”, without going into any details, but it doesn’t attempt to explain how calculated violence outside of the law contributed to the successful defence of Charlottesville.

My argument is and has always been with the handful on both the extreme right and left who advocate the deliberate so called ‘tactic’ of initiating violence and intimidation, not with those trying to defend against it.

 

[Andrew Hertford]

I suspect that Mr Hertford's acquaintance with racism and racist violence may be more fleeting than for some of us. I grew up hearing about how fascism - and communism - killed members of my family, and how my family had fought against supporters of fascism both here and in Ukraine. I also grew up seeing the police and officialdom treat my mates - who were a mix of Afro-Caribbean, West African, Hong Kong Chinese and Indians and Pakistanis - like shit, and made a decision in my teens not to stand by when it happened. As a result I got beaten up several times, but I learned that if you attack a fascist one-on-one, they invariably retreat. Plenty of times a group of half a dozen of us ran 20 or so "political soldiers" (now that's a fucking joke just by itself!) off of our own and neighbouring estates when they tried to sell their bullshit newspaper door-to-door. Hit them hard, and hit them over and over again, and they make a strategic decision that your area isn't "safe" for them. Sometimes violence is the only reasonable solution to the problem.

So it’s ‘who’s got the biggest balls’ time again is it? Then perhaps I should tell you about how I was bullied at school in South Africa in the 1970s for being a “kaffir lover”, or about the times I’ve stepped in to stop someone being physically assaulted on the street myself. But I won’t, because this isn’t about my ego any more than its about yours.

You're the sort of liberal cunt that makes me puke.

Smacking such people in the mouth is an appropriate reaction to pedlars of bullshit,

You liberal fuck.

Hmm... Read that with a Southern drawl, or for me with a white South African accent and suddenly Horseshoe Theory starts to make some sense.

If you genuinely used to “hit” people “hard and hit them over and over again” for selling newspapers, then you’re no better than a fascist yourself.

 

[NoXion]

The fash make no secret about the violence they intend to commit. Why not beat them to the punch and in the process prevent them from even starting to hurt people?

 

[Raheem]

The fash make no secret about the violence they intend to commit. Why not beat them to the punch and in the process prevent them from even starting to hurt people?

Plus, it's what the NHS is for. Use it or lose it.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I just think there really was no reason for it, they (the small group of protesters that decided to get aggressive / violent) couldn't have made a worse decision on how to act that day, and luckily it hasn't been blown way out of proportion as it very easily could have been.

 

[Nylock]

So it’s ‘who’s got the biggest balls’ time again is it? Then perhaps I should tell you about how I was bullied at school in South Africa in the 1970s for being a “kaffir lover”, or about the times I’ve stepped in to stop someone being physically assaulted on the street myself. But I won’t, because this isn’t about my ego any more than its about yours.

And yet, and yet, you still spout the following with a straight face:

Hmm... Read that with a Southern drawl, or for me with a white South African accent and suddenly Horseshoe Theory starts to make some sense.

If you genuinely used to “hit” people “hard and hit them over and over again” for selling newspapers, then you’re no better than a fascist yourself.

Drawing moral equivalence between a fascist and a direct-action anti-fascist is a cunt's trick of the worst order and plays directly into the hands of the far right. Good Job, Hertford.

 

[ViolentPanda]

So it’s ‘who’s got the biggest balls’ time again is it? Then perhaps I should tell you about how I was bullied at school in South Africa in the 1970s for being a “kaffir lover”, or about the times I’ve stepped in to stop someone being physically assaulted on the street myself. But I won’t, because this isn’t about my ego any more than its about yours.

Oh the sweet motherfucking irony!

Hmm... Read that with a Southern drawl, or for me with a white South African accent and suddenly Horseshoe Theory starts to make some sense.

If you genuinely used to “hit” people “hard and hit them over and over again” for selling newspapers, then you’re no better than a fascist yourself.

Hitting people who are avowedly fascist, who follow Nazi racial prescriptions and proscriptions, for selling papers promoting their ideological filth may make me "no better than a fascist" to you, but as it got those neo-Nazi pieces of shit off of my estate and others in the area, and stopped them openly harassing blacks in the area, I'm not going to apologise for taking physical direct action, and no-one I worked with back then would either, I suspect. Freedom to voice your opinions in public only extends as far as offending people who might exercise their freedom to disagree with you physically, as you make clear in the second sentence of your first paragraph above. It's strange then, that you can't accept that taking ad hoc action against bullies who are fascists is a legitimate enterprise. You're a typical liberal in that regard.

 

[ViolentPanda]

A brilliant illustration of the liberal virus (TM Samir Amin, I believe), a disease which makes sufferers blind to the differences between oppression of minorities, and suppression of such antisocial and anti-human behaviour.

 

[Streathamite]

VP, Rutita - both brilliant posts that say all I could ever want to say on the matter, far better than I could.
AH: remove those wiberwal scales from your eyes. Force to stop fascism is never wrong, only a painful necessity

 

[Treacle Toes]

VP, Rutita - both brilliant posts that say all I could ever want to say on the matter, far better than I could.

I stole it from elsewhere because it said what I wanted to.

 

[Streathamite]

I stole it from elsewhere because it said what I wanted to.

I kinda guessed that, tbh...
(and absolutely nothing wrong in doing so either, for that matter)

 

[Treacle Toes]

I kinda guessed that, tbh...
(and absolutely nothing wrong in doing so either, for that matter)

Oh come off it. You thought I sat here at work this morning making that myself admit it!

 

[Streathamite]

Oh come off it. You thought I sat here at work this morning making that myself admit it!

busted

 

[Streathamite]

On a more serious note, I'm genuinely baffled when people come out with the sort of Wiberwal 'violence is NEVER the answer! Bad as each other!' equidistance-ploughing bollix that AH has on this thread.
I mean, have have they honestly never read any history books covering, say, the 1930s?
It's not as if we don't know enough about those events. How can anyone miss that point so completely?
I don't get it.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

So I actually got round to googling about this Boston free speech rally that was supposedly a neo nazi thing. These are some of the 'nazis'. Am I missing something here? I don't understand.

 

[killer b]

For a free speech advocate, the republican senate candidate Shiva Ayyadurai (in the clip above) seems to have been involved in an awful lot of defamation cases.

 

[killer b]

Oh look! He's also written a book called All-American Indian: This Fight Is Your Fight - The Battle to Save America from the Elites Who Think They Know Better. But is a senate candidate for the Republican party, and piggybacked onto a neo-nazi rally with a couple of days notice to publicise his candidature. I wonder what his angle is.

 

[killer b]

Did you not bother googling this nutcase self-publicist before sharing his video ItWillNeverWork ?

 

[SpookyFrank]

If you genuinely used to “hit” people “hard and hit them over and over again” for selling newspapers, then you’re no better than a fascist yourself.

Odd how the people at the sharp end of fascist hatred, intimidation and violence never seem to agree with you on this point.

A cynic might say that non-violence was not a strategy to help the vulnerable or uphold standards of decency, but only to protect the delicate sensibilities and moral superiority of those who, for the time being at least, aren't in harm's way.

 

[rekil]

There's a potted who's who of 36 personalities here.

From Alt Right to Alt Lite: Naming the Hate

Lana Lokteff is mentioned. She's the wife of Henrik Palmgren who is mentioned over on the Vanessa Beeley thread and is mates with Patrick Henningsen of RT and 21st Century Wire who pushes the sort of stuff that a handful of fascists and conspiraloons have been boosting here with impunity.

 

[DotCommunist]

excellent photo of weev looking like a sex case rasputin

 

[sim667]

100% stealing this.

 

[flypanam]

Lana Lokteff is mentioned. She's the wife of Henrik Palmgren who is mentioned over on the Vanessa Beeley thread and is mates with Patrick Henningsen of RT and 21st Century Wire who pushes the sort of stuff that a handful of fascists and conspiraloons have been boosting here with impunity.

That Harper's article that Rutita1 posted is all about her.

 

[rekil]

That Harper's article that Rutita1 posted is all about her.

Ta, I just bookmarked it at the time and didn't get round it reading it yet Actually my link is in the wrong thread.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

For a free speech advocate, the republican senate candidate Shiva Ayyadurai (in the clip above) seems to have been involved in an awful lot of defamation cases.

Must be a Nazi then!

 

[NoXion]

Must be a Nazi then!

You're being daft. One doesn't have to be a Nazi to be dodgy. Willingly associating with them is enough.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

You're being daft. One doesn't have to be a Nazi to be dodgy.

Does one have to be a Nazi to be called a Nazi though? And in what way is this Shiva bloke so beyond the pale that it requires the noble intervention of Antifa?

I'm sorry but someone has fucked up royally here. Antifa are a liability. They are nothing but a recruitment tool for the right wing at this point.